Please stop feeding the troll.
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Undercover / Undercoverism
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Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde
StyleZeitgeist Magazine
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You've got an unusual definition for trolling, faust.
I think Chilton has made some really good points and I don't see anyone presenting any particularly cogent arguments against it but I've tended to be more on the side of fast fashion in general than most on this forum and I think Uniqlo tends to be a good example of what fast fashion can be. The only real underlying argument seems to be that it's 'inauthentic' which in this day and age strikes me as trolling, if anything.
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What the fuck are you talking about, no cogent arguments against it. EVERYBODY in the industry, EVERYBODY, knows that these are marketing ploys - the retailer probably loses money but gets people into the store, the designers makes money by prostituting his name. Not a single one of these collabs have produced anything of merit. I don't need some fucking layman keyboard cowboy to wax philosophical about this bullshit.Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde
StyleZeitgeist Magazine
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I think I've made a similar point about the Lanvin for H&M merchandise actually looking surprisingly good when it hit the salesfloor - you could tell they didn't use some cheap substitute materials or finishes they wouldn't use on their usual product - anyway, with Lanvin, there is a lot of deconstruction in the make of the pieces and so it turned out to feasible, satisfying results for the most part - those dresses with elasticated waists in silk gazar or grosgrain come to mind - not a bad deal at all given the around-200€-pricetags these pieces retailed for. The same goes for some of the men's jackets - you wouldn't expect those to be fully canvassed as a Dior suit, but for a lightweight sports-constructed jacket you just throw over casually, it was pretty outstandingly detailed and made for it's retail price of no more than 150€.
In terms of the quality, this excelled some of what Jil Sander was capable of doing for Uniqlo - They did well on the shirting (40€) and the outerwear (around 200€), whereas most of the other pieces were rather forgettable. Those pieces were nonetheless a good deal for what they retailed for (unlike some of the Rick Owens tees that are nowadays retailing for 200€ each and sometimes come with unstable seaming on the collar ribbing).
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You can keep harping on how good Jil for Uniqlow until you are hoarse. Except some dress shirts that were merely passable, everything else was shit.
Also, you are missing the point by a mile - Jun has stated his aversion to mass production, and now he is a part of it.Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde
StyleZeitgeist Magazine
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Originally posted by Faust View PostYou can keep harping on how good Jil for Uniqlow until you are hoarse. Except some dress shirts that were merely passable, everything else was shit.
Also, you are missing the point by a mile - Jun has stated his aversion to mass production, and now he is a part of it.
What tires me about these discussions is that it always conjures extreme reactions and leaves very little place for pragmatic observations - or even critical observations of the clothing industry seen from several angles. While designer fashions are publicized far further in today's time as they were maybe 20 years back, we are also experiencing that no decent pair of shoes seems to be available below 800€ retail while you have the most absurd sales on the high end market (60 - 70% off regular collection seems to become a normal habit among some of the larger retailers in the US)... even then, you don't have to look much further than the interest in the Classifieds thread on just how low you can find some high-end clothing being sold for.
Something tells me that fashion is losing touch of the customer, or that the often discussed fashion tribalism is in fact so small, it might be more suitable to address the customer directly as couture has always done.
I realize this is far extending the discussion from it's original starting point, but I felt this point would be valuable to raise.
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It is a valuable point - maybe we should put it elsewhere.
I am not sure what new I can say here - maybe someone else will, but a few points to reiterate.
1) We are in a market economy - designers and stores (both are complicit) will charge what the market will bear.
2) The recession wiping out a lot of middle class, the market is going back to how it actually always was, up until 50-60 years ago, super expensive and affordable.
3) Inflation is driving prices up, there is no doubt about it. Prices of raw materials are skyrocketing - especially wool and cashmere, cotton as well, but artificially. Where it becomes tricky is when you start putting in multipliers through the supply chain and all of a sudden a 10% increase at point A because a 100% increase at point F.
4) I am not sure that fashion is losing touch with reality. LVMH just posted record sales yet again - recession be damned. It seems rather that the fashion landscape is changing, that's all. It will probably end up like point 2.
You seem to be implying that somehow these designer collaborations will save the day. They won't, because the result is the same mass produced inanities with a different name tag on them. They are not designer fashion, no matter how many photos Lagerfeld takes of them. What MAY save the world is young talented designers exploiting market inefficiencies that are caused by greed and arrogance. The higher the prices of established designers, coupled with decrease in quality, become, which points to their disdain for the consumer and fuck-you-pay-me attitude, the more opportunity will be there for others to step in. This is how companies like Honda, Google, Apple, and Netflix are born - they come into a marketplace where the established players are so thick with the fat of their profits and faith in the status quo, that they become complacent and arrogant.Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde
StyleZeitgeist Magazine
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Does this collaboration really have to be ALL good or ALL bad? There is far too much splitting going on in this thread.
I don't think that it's a foregone conclusion that +J was all shit except for the shirting, Faust. Although I don't think people think it was AMAZING BEST THING EVAR!!11 like you seem to suggest they do, it certainly had some good pieces of outerwear, etc. Some of it was good, some was bad--just as I suspect this UC x Uniqlo collaboration will be (and as most things in life are). I think some interesting tech-streetwear pieces could come out of this, and I've always enjoyed Undercover's subversive t-shirt graphics--though I hardly expect these things to win over the SZ crowd. At worst, there's always the possibility that more people will become interested in the concepts that Jun is working with. Undercover hardly seems like a name that will cause droves of fashion-plebes to bumrush the store, the way Lanvin or CDG x H&M did. At the same time, there is perhaps the risk that such a collaboration will destroy the "sanctity" of the brand name, though that seems to me to be more a matter of perspective than anything.
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Originally posted by lmaozedong View PostDoes this collaboration really have to be ALL good or ALL bad?
Originally posted by lmaozedong View PostAt worst, there's always the possibility that more people will become interested in the concepts that Jun is working with.
Originally posted by lmaozedong View PostUndercover hardly seems like a name that will cause droves of fashion-plebes to bumrush the store, the way Lanvin or CDG x H&M did."AVANT GUARDE HIGHEST FASHION. NOW NOW this is it people, these are the brands no one fucking knows and people are like WTF. they do everything by hand in their freaking secret basement and shit."
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should post some of those hilarious youtube videos from the first CDGxHM days.Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde
StyleZeitgeist Magazine
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that shit went way, way past the funny/sad territory, to straight up disturbing"AVANT GUARDE HIGHEST FASHION. NOW NOW this is it people, these are the brands no one fucking knows and people are like WTF. they do everything by hand in their freaking secret basement and shit."
STYLEZEITGEIST MAGAZINE | BLOG
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Originally posted by lowrey View Postprobably not, but the main point, or the main target of criticism here is the integrity of a designer who has sworn against mass consumption and is now teaming up with a company literally named FAST RETAILING.
Originally posted by Faust View PostI don't need some fucking layman keyboard cowboy to wax philosophical about this bullshit.
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Originally posted by lowrey View Postcome on.. you think most people who shop at H&M knew much or anything about CDG? There isn't a single store selling CDG in my country, and every H&M even in smaller cities sold out of the collection the day it came in, solely because of hype that was generated through ad campaigns and online. These kids lining up were first and foremost H&M customers, and lets face it, they still don't know anything about CDG even after they bought a crappy shirt.
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Not to invalidate the depth and breadth of this discussion, but I find it rather, I don't know, interesting how much people have to say on this. It's just that I've never given two shits about these designer collaborations, one way or another, because I don't see them as really having anything to do with the designer's high-end line (besides referencing it). Considering how much I love CDG, for example, I just can't find it in myself to take the time or energy to be offended by, let alone pay much attention to, their collaboration with H&M. I mean, I do things I don't always believe in for money too - although I try to keep it to a minimum.
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I dont think we can just blame the market economy only for the super high price of designer rtw. In most case, the high price is nothing more than to keep the stuffs elusive and suggest an air of luxury.
I usually like the collaborations but rather with less known designers, such as projects that Uniqlo used to do in the past. The big name collab are driving the brand blind crazyness and perhaps eat out market share of young and less known designers.
I think the big brands shld concentrate in more effective production to lower their price - if they really want to make their fashion affordable for clients. Rather than make few super high priced clothes and then sell tons of cheap copies with H&M or who ever else.
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