Zam Barrett Dialogue

[zamb]

Tell me you don't have the hoodie in black please... I absolutely adore how the hoodie structured from the neck upwards, now I just need my arrow and bow to complete the wood elf hunter look. Easily a holy grail in my book.

thank you
Yes it will be available in black, only in limited runs as we are planning on only making about six of these in the current iteration

the full item price list of items for the summer will be available tomorrow with pics of the "weightless" items......

there is a lot of items still available from the Spring list that are still on sale, with the Non seasonal items being carried over from season to season

[zamb]

Z I know you take great pride in your work & rightly so You are an excellent Tailor and your hard work def comes through in the final product and to top it off you are so likeable .
In terms of design though you have yet to find your own voice specially with clothing , You def have your signature with the bags !

My comment was not intended to be subliminal or sarcastic ,I always assumed that it was understood around these parts that the biggest appeal of ZB clothing is cheaper more accessible versions of SZ’s fav designers but If I am the only one who sees LUCA’s patterns, CCP’s details & now MA+ with subtle deviations in quite a few of your designs then I am probably just more blind & jaded than I think.

I also understand that its very easy to be inspired by what you love and sometimes unintentionally things end up looking very similar to the original inspiration, This seems to be the path of quite a few designers who eventually find what they want to say & what will be uniquely their own!

Please keep at it you are very talented ,hardworking & honest a great recipe for success and are sure to find your way to the place you belong!

So I have decided to take the discussion here, as I really need to flesh this out further.
So far we have done four full collections, and lets examine this thing closely and see if there is any merit to your argument, or is it that you fail to understand the nature of our work.

First Collection:
Voices of Vice and Virtue.
There was a clear explanation of the collection given and detailed explanations of the ideas that gave life to the garments. I say to you, feel free to look though it, pull any of the garments you want, and tell me which of them is inspired by, or consist of similar patterns from CCP, LUC or MA+..........

Second Collection:
The Venerability of Parsimony
Inspired by the ideas of William of Occam, and the Nominalistic Philosophical perspective, with signature pieces being the Razor Coat, and the "Inner" Items, the "Inner" blazer, the "Inner" leather jacket etc. it was also then, we had the first iteration of the "Minimalist" J Jeans, etc
Pictures again of all the garments are available, go through it, examine them closely, and do the same thing,Choose whichever piece you like and then lets discuss the similarities you claim to see.....

Third Collection
On Natural Selection
Darwins evolutionary theory, ten taking it further into the idea of Androids and human/ machine type beings such as the "Borgs" of the Star Trek series

From then you had the "Three Legged Mutant Pants, the "Borg" Jacket, Four Sleeve Hybrid shirt etc....
AGAIN, required is the same, look through the collection, and show me a SINGLE garment, whee there is any copying, and reference to any of the designers you mention, for which I offer "Cheaper More accessible versions" of their Clothing


Fourth Collection
Second Treatise on First Propositions.
the last collection in a personal trilogy where many of the core items of the company was developed, and while there are a lot of New items in the collection, it was predominantly a revision of mangy of the original ideas and solving a lot of kinks and problems that existed with the concepts of the fist issue of the garments.....Feel free to go there again, spend some time, take a look and tell me where there is any copying of anyone, you can even go beyond the three designers you mentioned, bring me a designer, and show me where and how i copied or a you say "inspired by" then we can talk.....

[zamb]

So now,

Let us turn our attention to some of the most successful productions coming out of our studio, to see if the garments we sell the most of, appeal to the clients who purchase because they are cheaper more accessible "versions" of SZ favorite designers, or they rate garments people really like because they are well designed, well made and liked because of what they are within themselves or because the "look like something else"

I will list two in each product Category

Outerwear.
Asymmetric Lapel Jacket
Asymmetric Lapel leather Jacket



Tops
Echadh Seam tops
Magic Penny Shirt


Pants
Soft J pants (we sell a lot of these)
Minimalist J Jeans

Accessories
Siamese Tote Bag
Oxidized stell and leather Slim Belt

Tomorrow will tell you the origin of the ideas behind these garments, and post the pictures so we can discuss them......


Questioning my integrity as a designer is not something I take lightly.
I must tell you I am a not an egomaniac, but I am a proud man. Copying other people work when I could spend time developing my own ideas is not something I do, I have been blessed with a tremendous gift, and I am just too talented for that........

[kuugaia]

The extent to which you are trying to validate yourself is a bit strange zamb. I don't want to say too much as I don't have any experience with your clothing, but if I was to speak through what I see on the internetz, I too feel your clothing is 'inspired' - but that in itself isn't a problem. Every designer has inspirations, be that from other designers or from similar pools that other designers draw inspiration from. The words of Yohji: 'just keep copying what you love, and you will find yourself' (or something along the lines). How vehemently you are arguing about not being inspired by other designers in this niche makes me think more otherwise - not that it matters.

And I dont like to boast or say off putting things as I respect people and their work but I will say this only once, and you all can quote me on this:

My goal is to be as good as or better than everyone else doing this damn work in my niche, I didn't do this to be second or third rate, my road will be a long hard one, but when all is said and done, when the great ones are mentioned, my name should at the very least be in the conversation. That's the fire in my belly, that's the unquenchable flame I have inside me, to be an immortal at this, I am not one out of touch with reality and I am not doing this to be rich, or deceiving myself. I know those who are better than I am, but I know there are many who are overrated, whose work my own stands head and shoulders above in terms of fit and quality.........Yes we dont have the image right yet, the mystique and the pull of some, but there are only a very few designers in this thing whose quality of work is better than mine because there is only a select few that has my skill level.........however at the end of it all, this is dictated by the clients an not me, so I labor on, getting up early, staying up late at nights and working tirelessly make this company one of the D*mn best there is........and as I said, you can quote me on that.......

But you already have said off-putting things that doesn't really respect other people's work. You're saying other designers are overrated, that they're not as skilled or talented as you, and that your construction is better than theirs (M.A+). Is there really a need for you to say this if you honestly believe that clients will dictate what is true? Or are you trying to persuade people otherwise?

I have absolutely no ill-intentions on you or your label (as I have not handled it at all), but you seem to be looking for responses, so mine is: I think your work aesthetically doesn't stand apart from other designers in this niche, and that you haven't found a voice yet. The garment designs and construction looks good, but not particularly interesting. However I don't see that as an issue as it's a new label and needs time to grow. Most labels in this niche look the same anyway; I mean, who doesn't do j-pants, raw hems, anatomic tailoring, curved seams, and distressed leather these days? Haha.

[voice_on_tape]

Phenomenal bag, I really love the color. Is it intentionally looking like a human heart? or is that just me?

[lowrey]

...then I am probably just more blind & jaded than I think.

I've known the designers you named here and seen their collections first hand for several years, including Zam, and I certainly wouldn't mistake any of them for one another.

Yes, many designers take classic elements and rework them, such as LUC's "tuxedo" trousers or blazers which have unique features in the cut, as do Zam's jeans, I haven't seen his back pocket cut anywhere else. But these are entirely different. I'm not sure what items you are talking about when you're comparing the two, but neither one is the first one to do a curved leg pant, both have their own take on it.

I assume the CCP comparison comes from such details as overlock stitching, but is that it? I don't see whats similar about m.a+ either, the fact that some garments are more or less "raw"?

What goes for Zam's clothing being generally considered only as a cheaper alternative to other designers, I don't agree with that. I own plenty of CCP, LUC, m.a+ and others, I buy Zam's clothes because I genuinely like it and I also have great respect for how he works and the passion he has for it.

[MoFiya]

What goes for Zam's clothing being generally considered only as a cheaper alternative to other designers, I don't agree with that. I own plenty of CCP, LUC, m.a+ and others, I buy Zam's clothes because I genuinely like it and I also have great respect for how he works and the passion he has for it.

Indeed. I also bought Zam's stuff because I like his minimalist aesthetic and he is qualitywise on par with the big ones (from my experience). For me as a student, pricing also is a point which makes his label more attractive than for example LUC. However, I also feel that there are not much similarities, except for what you could call a general "SZ aesthetic" (although I do not like that word). I mean, we're all here into artisan, minimalist, well-made and (mostly) slim-fitting fashion. What I am trying to say: the more abstract you get the more similarities you will necessarily find. Compare it to music: to novices, every reggae artist (or whatever) sounds the same. However, the closer you look you can see it's only the general rhythm that they share.

I myself also buy Zams stuff because I like to support small producers and enjoy the short line of communication we have with him. I like to know about the stuff I buy and the thoughts a designer puts into his clothes. For me, that adds depth and soul to the stuff I wear.

edit. But I enjoy the discussion, so thanks for bringing it up :)

[zamb]

Kuugaia,

trust all is well with you,
when someone comes on a public forum, and basically (albeit in a somewhat polite way) say that my work is "inspired by" and is basically a copy of other designers' work, and consequently second rate, I think I have a right to ask such a person, or anyone else who shares this view to bring me concrete points (i.e., pictures and such) that would prove if there is any merit to their argument.
the truth of the matter is there cannot be any, because there really isn't any merit to such a statement. I will tell you this, If there was any truth to this I WOULD BE THE FIRST TO TELL YOU. As in this day and age I really don't see this as a big issue if it is the case.....but I do see it as, when it is not.

Let me say this to you, if you knew me you would know that I am one of the first person to defend any of the designers mentioned, and many others when they are to be defended. My statements were not to put down any of these designers or their work which I do respect. I would like to think readers here are intelligent enough to understand what I am saying, which is to say that each of these designers have their owns strengths, and areas of their work may be superior to mine, but there are areas where mine is ahead too, as we as designers all have different strengths...reading the entirety of what I said you would see that I spoke of where I thought each designers strength was, in comparison to my own work, as such I see no need to be uncomfortable or unwilling to say where my work stands superior in certain respects.....
One might say its hard to be objective about your own work, but I am not that kind of person. Narcissism is not a trait I have, nor am I unwilling to say what I think. one thing you will get from me is an honest perspective, as best as I can give, rather than a politically correct one...........

I have made many things that in the end I didn't like, and I would be the first to tell you that the idea might have been good but the result us crap. I grew up in a society and a family where you heard the truth and had to face the harsh realities of life from very early, As such it has always given me the intent to see things as they are, even with myself.
As I've gotten older and traveled, I have learned sometimes that wisdom demands that you don't say certain things, but I think in this particular context the statements I made are perfectly appropriate....


I encourage you to spend some time checking out the stuff in person, or even in more details in the images available, maybe that will give you a different understanding of what I do

The extent to which you are trying to validate yourself is a bit strange zamb. I don't want to say too much as I don't have any experience with your clothing, but if I was to speak through what I see on the internetz, I too feel your clothing is 'inspired' - but that in itself isn't a problem. Every designer has inspirations, be that from other designers or from similar pools that other designers draw inspiration from. The words of Yohji: 'just keep copying what you love, and you will find yourself' (or something along the lines). How vehemently you are arguing about not being inspired by other designers in this niche makes me think more otherwise - not that it matters.



But you already have said off-putting things that doesn't really respect other people's work. You're saying other designers are overrated, that they're not as skilled or talented as you, and that your construction is better than theirs (M.A+). Is there really a need for you to say this if you honestly believe that clients will dictate what is true? Or are you trying to persuade people otherwise?

I have absolutely no ill-intentions on you or your label (as I have not handled it at all), but you seem to be looking for responses, so mine is: I think your work aesthetically doesn't stand apart from other designers in this niche, and that you haven't found a voice yet. The garment designs and construction looks good, but not particularly interesting. However I don't see that as an issue as it's a new label and needs time to grow. Most labels in this niche look the same anyway; I mean, who doesn't do j-pants, raw hems, anatomic tailoring, curved seams, and distressed leather these days? Haha.

[zamb]

Thanks
Noumenos, Lowrey and MoFyia,

[theetruscan]

The extent to which you are trying to validate yourself is a bit strange zamb.

A bit strange, perhaps. Not at all surprising. It's very much what I would expect from Zam, after my handful of discussions (obviously I don't know him all that well). He gives very detailed and thorough explanations. I wouldn't read anything into it.

I mean, who doesn't do j-pants, raw hems, anatomic tailoring, curved seams, and distressed leather these days

This isn't the half of it. You would not believe how many pants I've seen where the lazy designer just copied the two-legs + top block with a fly shape. What happened to the butt-flap?

On a side note, inspired doesn't mean copied!

[kuugaia]

Firstly, I had nothing and have nothing to say about your work in comparison to other designers. I'm neither experienced with your clothing or affluent enough with other designers to even try to draw comparisons - not that I would even if I did.

I'd rather not drag out my post any further than I already have, as it lacks substance (due to a lack of experience with your clothing). But my point was that: even if you are inspired by others, there's nothing wrong with that. As long as you're making something that people respond to, all good. One of my favorite quotes is 'nothing of me is original, I am the combined effort of everyone I've ever known'. Authenticity...it's a very iffy subject, but in the end...not even CCP or Rick owns this aesthetic. In my opinion, whoever makes the best pair of j-shape overlocked raw hem pants wins.

You put your heart and soul in your work, and if somebody questions it, of course you will feel the need to explain how it is otherwise. I understand your position. But people are always going to have their opinions, and maybe the way you were clarifying your label (by using 'objective quality' comparisons) was a bit too much for me. Designers dissing other designers is a bit of different landscape imo. A difference in opinion? Maybe. But my point was that the customer 'truth' will always prevail - clearly as the above posters have spoken.

I would be happy to check out your stuff in the future, it's just not physically possible in my parts haha.

On a side note, inspired doesn't mean copied!

Agreed!

[christianef]

its a bit of a circular argument not everyone is lowery and has the chance to glance over every piece in detail at the showroom and unveil the handful of marginal details that distinguish this from that. if shit resembles other shit in a picture you look at for a few seconds on the internet some people are going to draw the knee jerk conclusion you are knocking other shit off to some extent and you are slightly foolish to expect otherwise. there has a been a notable rise in popularity among a lot of the designers discussed here over the past slew of years and if you come out of the blue as a designer during this period with something that on the surface looks a bit like other stuff we have seen its natural to be compared to some of the big preprocessors.

on the flip sides zambs been around forever from what i can recall. so it makes equal sense this is a look he's always been aligned with and he has his own unique cultural background, world view, skill on a sewing machine etc to approach it in his own way which he has done. the man himself looks like a goddamn prince wearing the stuff, too.

[zamb]

. But my point was that: even if you are inspired by others, there's nothing wrong with that. As long as you're making something that people respond to, all good.

you and I agree on this, and as I have said before, where this is the case, I would be the first to admit, as I see nothing wrong with this. My point is that it isn't and that's the point I am making. I am saying that if someone think that that is the case bring me the examples and if none can be brought then the argument is without merit.

.

You put your heart and soul in your work, and if somebody questions it, of course you will feel the need to explain how it is otherwise. I understand your position. But people are always going to have their opinions, and maybe the way you were clarifying your label (by using 'objective quality' comparisons) was a bit too much for me.

I have no problem with peoples opinions. however for me there is a difference between an opinion and something stated as a matter of fact. I know in this postmodern world, many of us are taught to believe all things are "relative" Sorry if I am not a part of that camp. I am a firm believer in solid unmovable objectives that exist apart from human perceptions. For me in terms of quality of Clothing, there is such a think as objective quality standards..........it is why we use the fabrics we do:

• It is why we prewash the fabrics before making the clothing to prevent shrinkage when the clients receive the garments.
• It is why I make and wear the garments before I sell them so I can know how they will perform and how comfortable they are and what technical problems I need to solve
• It is why we use Tex 40 thread to sew the lighter garments and Tex 60/70 for denim/ canvas and Nylon and waxed linen for leather items, while most companies use Tex 21 for sewing
• It is why I avoid fabrics that pill, stuff that requires special dry cleaning and all of those things.
• It is why we sew the buttons on by hand and not machine, even though it costs us a lot to hire someone just for this rather than just buying a machine to do it
• etc etc etc

For me quality matters greatly and it isn't a matter of opinion, if that was the case we would never have set up Zfactoie where I can control the quality and manner of how the stuff is made rather than contacting it out to someplace else.
Fir me the quality of the work should be one of the hallmarks of the image of this brand...... because if you buy a piece from us and in the first wearing it rips at the armhole, you are not going to say that its a matter of opinion, you are going to say the quality is crap and probably have second thoughts about buying something again.........

Anyways, I think its time for this discussion to die, I got a lot of other things to do, and it was nice talking to you and everyone else

And for the record, I was not dissing any of the designers, I think the true testament to my respect for these people is that I actually own and wear items from them that I bought with my own money...........and I dont buy things for the hype. I am a man that buys what I like. LUC is the only one I haven't owned as yet, but dont worry, I got my eye on something from him that I'm getting soon......

[zamb]

its a bit of a circular argument not everyone is lowery and has the chance to glance over every piece in detail at the showroom and unveil the handful of marginal details that distinguish this from that. if shit resembles other shit in a picture you look at for a few seconds on the internet some people are going to draw the knee jerk conclusion you are knocking other shit off to some extent and you are slightly foolish to expect otherwise. there has a been a notable rise in popularity among a lot of the designers discussed here over the past slew of years and if you come out of the blue as a designer during this period with something that on the surface looks a bit like other stuff we have seen its natural to be compared to some of the big preprocessors.

on the flip sides zambs been around forever from what i can recall. so it makes equal sense this is a look he's always been aligned with and he has his own unique cultural background, world view, skill on a sewing machine etc to approach it in his own way which he has done. the man himself looks like a goddamn prince wearing the stuff, too.

woohooo!
The baddest lady on SZ just called me a prince

take that suckers

[gnow]

I'll also like to say that most/some of us will look at clothes form a consumer perspective, instead form a designer's perspective; and being exposed to SZ, it is not surprising that we will draw references and perspective from other designer labels.

I too am with kuugaia in agreeing that having inspiration from other designers is fine (since the market we are in is indeed consider a niche one). And especially on a public forum like SZ, there are bound to be discussions such like this; from BBS to DD, to Augusta to CCP, Julius to RO, etc. In fact, though I do not like, or feel the need to compare one designer to another, if i had to read thoughts and opinions on this topic, I'm glad that it has to be on SZ.

With that said, like lowrey, bar the overlock stitching, I do not see much inspiration drawn from other designers in Zam's clothing, and in Zam's defense, I believe he once documented the entire process of performing overlock stitching on some blog, and it wasn't really difficult.

Though I can understand that many might be feel that Zam is over doing it when trying to justify his designs and patterns to be uniquely his own, I'll just like to say that Zam provides detailed arguments/description for most of his post here; that;s just how he responds to anything (particularly clothing related), on SZ.