Paul Harnden

[snafu]

Im just pointing out i know for a fact that some of paul's fabrics are crazy expensive, some of his more tailored suiting fabrics he has used are around £65-£75 per meter.
i know this because i have been to alot of the mills he has used and still uses. Around Huddersfield, Sheffield and generally Yorkshire. I don't know about his ones in Scotland.
His printed fabrics will cost a hell of alot to produce because they are not digital, but i do not know an exact price.
UK manufacturing is so also not cheap. Despite his lack of construction.

Im not saying i would pay his retail price or are saying his stuff is well constructed. But i understand some of his overheads.

Say a jacket is retailed for €2500, the shop may be work on a magin on 2.7-2.9 means he selling it for around €900, say it costs him say 400-500 when you consider that is around £400 and fabric cost could be around £150-170, then add on manufacturing which i don't think he pays so much for ... as fumma said its sewn by drunken monkeys.
That is just my estimation on tailored pieces.

I would expect his heavier wool linens are cheaper but not that much.
He is supporting the old mills he believes in.

[newp]

Im just pointing out i know for a fact that some of paul's fabrics are crazy expensive, some of his more tailored suiting fabrics he has used are around £65-£75 per meter.
i know this because i have been to alot of the mills he has used and still uses. Around Huddersfield, Sheffield and generally Yorkshire.

Do you know any other clients of said mills?

[applecrisp]

Even if the retail prices are somewhat justified by fabric costs, it doesn't change the fact that PH is still pumping out the same ol' designs at double the price. There's no design or research going into the product; there's no progress at all.

[Faust]

The fabrics I've seen so far for FW15 look identical to what he's already been using. Wouldn't be surprised if they were from the same stock he already has.

[snafu]

I know they don't change drastically but manufacture costs have been increasing, even if they are stock; he would have had to buy them at one point and it doesn't really change the price per meter. I just think people under estimate the cost price of his fabric. I agreed he doesn't change but he doesn't have to and really has never changed the aesthetic/theme since the founding with Elena.

[unwashed]

Here's maybe some insightful information about why fabric prices may have risen. It could be maintaining the old mills is just expensive and all.

Some reply to this article from a guy who apparently worked with him comments: "
He liked to go through the archive books (some dating back to 1779), looking for his ‘inspirations…..and he really could ‘tweak’ original new concepts from those old swatches….we made some amazing fabrics for him during those years. The other thing that stands out for me, is that he used to take the fabric from us straight from the loom (unwashed!!!, unfinished!!!) which was almost unheard of because it is during finishing that fine woollen / worsted fabrics transform from a raw, rough commodity to a thing of beauty!! — not for him though, he explained to us that he would “bury the cloth underground for several weeks and let nature do the finishing work”!!! — which is how the fabrics achieve his ‘antique’ appearance."

complete reply here:

One could argue that the use of raw fabrics should lead to lower prices because the washing and finishing part isn't needed

[applecrisp]

Many mills are not accustomed to releasing unfinished goods into designers' hands though. I'd guess most mills won't even allow it because it creates a lot of uncertainty in the fabric that mills don't want to be held accountable for at any step of production. So I doubt that lowers the price of fabrics.

But burying the cloth underground to finish it? That's fantasy. That's what the high prices are about. People are dumb enough to believe that these tall tales really add value to the work.

[Law]

Im just pointing out i know for a fact that some of paul's fabrics are crazy expensive, some of his more tailored suiting fabrics he has used are around £65-£75 per meter.
i know this because i have been to alot of the mills he has used and still uses. Around Huddersfield, Sheffield and generally Yorkshire. I don't know about his ones in Scotland.
His printed fabrics will cost a hell of alot to produce because they are not digital, but i do not know an exact price.
UK manufacturing is so also not cheap. Despite his lack of construction.

Im not saying i would pay his retail price or are saying his stuff is well constructed. But i understand some of his overheads.

Say a jacket is retailed for €2500, the shop may be work on a magin on 2.7-2.9 means he selling it for around €900, say it costs him say 400-500 when you consider that is around £400 and fabric cost could be around £150-170, then add on manufacturing which i don't think he pays so much for ... as fumma said its sewn by drunken monkeys.
That is just my estimation on tailored pieces.

I would expect his heavier wool linens are cheaper but not that much.
He is supporting the old mills he believes in.

75 Pounds is not "crazy expensive" for a half way decent suiting fabric, it's actually very cheap in the grand scheme of things.

[snafu]

yeh but then you are talking about saville row construction and trust me you can't get a half decent suit for under £3.5k/€4.25-4.5, even then it won't be using the quality of fabric Paul is buying. It would be alot lower quality even for that price.

He is using some 'super' fabrics and i don't know what rating they are not as high as 160's, but trust me his cost price for fabrics, which are made in the UK ..... not in Italy, is high.
You obviously expect him to make a margin but realise that a small increase at his end relates to far far greater one when it comes to retail.

Even his waxed garments he is using british millerain, but then he does all his washing etc after things are made which i suppose is an actual cost.

I just think alot of people are naive to realise the cost of producing and buying fabric, for instance, his fabrics will cost 3/4x the price someone like rick or raf and he will have higher production costs.

[unwashed]

I think a lot of the work is setting up, configuring an tweaking the machines to the requirements of the customer to produce fabric. this might be were most of the costs will go to.

Once it rolls you just insert materials and monitor the production. So the more you produce of the same the less it will cost per meter in the end.
So may not seem very efficient designing your own fabric as a small company, but in the end you have the control over it and have something unique (which nobody will ever notice).

[cjbreed]

These are good points snafu thanks for sharing. It's still a frustrating issue but thats good info to have

[snafu]

Im not arguing that his construction is good value for money...
His garments in comparison to other designers, you could say his stuff is made like shit... but that is part of his charm: he is not looking for a refined garment, he deliberately wants the opposite...

Trust me to find a seamstress who understands how to sew 'badly/wrong' is actually probably very difficult and therefore he cannot simply go to a cheaper manufacture.
Its very difficult when you are tying to do something outside of the norm, its hard for someone who is used to sewing in a classic way.
Therefore with the price of inflation ... their wages should increase therefore the cost of production increase. etc.

His fabrics are of a very good quality from what i have seen, he is very particular in what he uses, therefore he is tied down to specifics as a designer. Even down to the cloth covered buttons... normally they are not covered at the back; where as his are.

I couldn't say for sure but i really don't think his margin has changed, to be honest every designer out there is charging more for their stuff but he gets criticised more than the other simply because he keeps producing the same sort of garments as he did years ago.

If you don't like his stuff simply don't buy it, but try to understand the system.

I suppose to be stupidly simple... for every £1 increase in cost in his part it will relate to an increase of £5.50/£6.00 to the end consumer ... this is only my understanding. If you think I'm wrong i may be mistaken.

People need to remember this includes raises in rent, price of delivery from supplier to him, price of delivery to retailers, wage increase, energy prices (which have gone absurd in the UK) etc etc

[MikeN]

The fabrics I've seen so far for FW15 look identical to what he's already been using. Wouldn't be surprised if they were from the same stock he already has.

No, all of the fabrics this season are the new. The only thing I've ever seen him "reuse" are leathers... just in that it's the same leather in the same color.

Also, to snafu's points, don't forget the GBP is quite strong right now against the Euro, USD, and Yen. Stores around the world have to buy this stuff in GBP, convert it to their local currency, pay shipping, taxes, customs, and THEN mark it up.

[Gerber]

Is PH using british millerain on some of the jackets? Then we are rather talking 14-25gpb per meter. And for his regular jackets - you dont need much. There is no akward pattern that would consume extreme amounts.

So at least these are staying lower priced?

[BSR]

Im not arguing that his construction is good value for money...
His garments in comparison to other designers, you could say his stuff is made like shit... but that is part of his charm: he is not looking for a refined garment, he deliberately wants the opposite...

yeah but it wasn't faust's point. the issue he raised is not only that PH prices have gone up, it's more that they could go up because the demand has become higher, that the demand has become higher because of SZ, and that PH never acknowledged this for a fact.