LA Times Magazine - Kobe Bryant

[Faust]

Without that customer, I doubt Rick Owens would still be in business. So, begrudge her all you want, but I'm sure Rick appreciates her $$. Maybe she just likes the jacket AND can afford it. At least the "Social X-ray" physique would make an excellent hanger. Mind numbing prices for the rich. The horror.

She can afford it, but I can't. I appreciate Rick's clothes and can relate to them, but she does not and cannot. So, if we assume that Rick has authenticity, who does he want as his customer?

I don't begrudge her, I disdain her. And I would imagine so does Rick - otherwise he would not refuse to go to the Met ball.

[Faust]

But don't you think that fashion and art, in their evolutions, bear some relationship to the external world? According to your point, it looks like the 'established order' scope is confined to the fashion world, and that the history of fashion is a sort of hegelian fight of designers against their predecessors.

I might be wrong, but imo what mailmoth was saying is that exterior changes can influence fashion designers.

@Christian: I'm not sure I could completely separate aesthetics from other aspects of reality. I mean, there is a debate about the conditions under which an aesthetic judgement can occur. Of course aesthetic judgements are triggered by emotions, but these emotions might occur only if one has a specific knowledge of factual features about the object of the aesthetic judgement... So, at the end, some sort of knowledge would be necessarily involved in the recognition of aesthetic properties. Maybe I misunderstood what you mean when you speak of 'making sense stylistically'.

I think it's both. They certainly pay attention to what goes on in the fashion world - I mean, they must, if they go to a fashion school, but they are influenced by culture as well.

[Castor]

She can afford it, but I can't. I appreciate Rick's clothes and can relate to them, but she does not and cannot. So, if we assume that Rick has authenticity, who does he want as his customer?

I don't begrudge her, I disdain her. And I would imagine so does Rick - otherwise he would not refuse to go to the Met ball.

So, who is the intended buyer for those $20,000 Palais Royale furs on Hudson Street?

Rick maintains his authenticity while still courting the ultra rich. I think this is part of the tension in his work. In my opinion, authenticity exists solely in the product. Otherwise, to maintain authenticity, Rick should only sell in a "by appointment only" atelier. Rick's swift expansion and price increases seem to be odds with your logic.

[Faust]

So, who is the intended buyer for those $20,000 Palais Royale furs on Hudson Street?

Rick maintains his authenticity while still courting the ultra rich. I think this is part of the tension in his work. In my opinion, authenticity exists solely in the product. Otherwise, to maintain authenticity, Rick should only sell in a "by appointment only" atelier. Rick's swift expansion and price increases seem to be odds with your logic.

Decadent Bohemians!

[Fade to Black]

I don't begrudge her, I disdain her. And I would imagine so does Rick - otherwise he would not refuse to go to the Met ball.

Though I'll never meet Rick, let alone know what's going on inside his head, something like this makes me do a million decibel cheer for him inside.

And what better 'fuck you' gesture is there than that...

[christianef]

bad example. most people wear sneakers not to play sports but to walk around.

it was a joke. but yeah most people wear basketball shoes not to play basketball in. so thats not inauthentic, but when a professional athlete wears rick owens in an editorial it is?? im still with fuuma, female celebrity pawns often try to garner fans though the exploitation of fashion devices. but its kobe bryant??? sure its a major publication but i cant see too many sports fans putting too much stock into this and dont find it all that complicated. maybe im wrong. as mail-moth pointed out if it was a 14 year old paid model nobody would care because they have long hair. well i got news this is what your favorite ann model looks like after the show http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_kT-PEeOsa8.../Leonsvtag.jpg aha so much for the dream (jk again.)
but reminds me of when i pass a piece onto my mom, she could care less what it represents, what to wear it with or who's she's supposedly indebted too just finds cashmere as comfortable as the next person and will wear is because its nice...and she will look nice in it - because she's my mom.

[Faust]

Look, I don't care what people who wear sneakers, Ann's model, or your mom wears, honestly.

Anyway, the whole discussion of an editorial is pointless, because it is an editorial. The question of authenticity doesn't even come in here.

[christianef]

me either. i only care what kobe wears.

[mass]

(ps, he lies about growing up in the hood)

when did he say this? everyone knows who his father is.

[mass]

[delirium]

I agree with more of the dissident.
I don't really see the issue. It's an editorial. The only think I find strange is that he's wearing all white, and it's shot to look incredibly bright. It looks very affected if they were going for a "casual look." He would look fine in the exact same shots but with more "normal" colors.

when did he say this? everyone knows who his father is.

..........

yeah

who actually thinks kobe is from the hood? i mean he's named after japanese beef which is cool but uh clearly not hood...

[Chant]

Vogue constantly decides what is right and what is wrong. I mean, this is the whole POINT of its existence, to tell people what to wear.

No, Vogue tells you what is "in" and what is "out", they tell you what to wear indeed, but not that what you're wearing is worn for a "right" or a "wrong" reason, which suppose to know the intentions of the wearers, which you can't never know - or only by induction - and about which I don't care.

Anyway, police is there to protect others from harm. In the case we are discussing there is no harm done (except to my eyes). As you know, ethics and law don't always intersect and are often at odds with each other.

"Fashion police" is not a police, it's a militia, like those financed by wealthy people to protect themselves from outlaws. You can translate : some SZ members see themselves as wealthy people (they know the designer's universe) and don't want uncultivated outlaws like rappers to wear their beloved garments.

[Fade to Black]

heh, it's ironic because those uncultivated outlaws are most likely wealthier than any SZ member.

[Mail-Moth]

Yes, but they're poor culture-wise. And they of course have awful taste, like bandit kings in popular fiction, with massive golden ring bearing stones big as a pigeon's egg passed to each finger and tatters of purple velvet, embroidered silk and precious furs haphazardly draped over their stinking flesh - when we, for our part, rather represent some form of aristocraty : that is, those for whom all those jewels and robes were initially made, to be worn and displayed at their ceremonies, suppers and bals.

[delirium]

I don't know if it's that easy to jump to conclusions about why people dress. Maybe they just don't care that they look gaudy and are doing it to play the part.

It also seems idealistic (elitist perhaps) to think that the designers design with us as the target customer in mind.