Internet vs. Print and Fashion

[eat me]

Browsing is so much more superior online. How many records will you ask the staff to preview for you? 2? 4? 75? On the web you can get much more specialist tools to discover what you would like - last.fm has "Similiar Artists" tool, iTunes has Genius, allmusic.com has tools as well, and you can listen to them right there too. No shop will ever be able to do that.

I think, Faust, what bugs you is the perception that whatever it is bought that's not physical, not something you can touch and stroke and pass to your friend to have a look at, is kind of non-existent.

[Faust]

That's not what bugs me - I've paid for my downloaded music.
The browsability on the web is entirely different - you have to know what you want to browse in the first place. In the store, you just walk in and all this stuff stares at you.

The recommendation system that websites have, from Yahoo radio to Amazon to Netflix has not worked well for me - they are not nuanced enough. I can't explain to Netflix why I like Braveheart and hate Gladiator - to them they are both action movies where people kill each other with swords.

[ProfMonnitoff]

The browsability on the web is entirely different - you have to know what you want to browse in the first place. In the store, you just walk in and all this stuff stares at you.

But if you want to take that analogy further, you have to remember that not every magazine is available at every store, most 'good' magazines are only sold by stores in a few cities, and even if you live in one of those cities, you have to know where the store is. Also, there aren't any cross-references between various magazines like there are with website. Site x may link to an article on site y, but that doesn't really happen with print media, at least in fashion.

Say what you want about content, but the barriers to entry are much smaller online.

[Faust]

I understand that point, already brought up by sam_tem. What can I say, I'm a spoiled New Yorker.

[Castor]

I don't read magazines for the most part. I may flip through them, but I almost never buy. I read much more on the internet and I am an information gatherer by nature and the web suits me fine. I wouldn't miss magazines at all.

I love that I can scan through all the RTW shows the day after they take place. I remember years ago paying for these giant magazines in obscure newstands which featured two pages of each designer's exits (and not all of the designers or looks) for like $100. And each city had its own book. Over that.

As far as shopping goes, I live in NYC and everything I want seems available, but I love the websites for expanded inventory and accessibility. I love the hunt and the wormhole of internet shopping. But, nothing can compare to actually touching a fabric and trying on a garment, so internet shopping will always have its limitations and risks.

[eat me]

Faust, don't get me wrong, I didn't mean to say that you've got them illegally or something. What I meant is that buying things like music, movies and other content on the web seems intangible compared to physical objects.

I remember years ago paying for these giant magazines in obscure newstands which featured two pages of each designer's exits (and not all of the designers or looks) for like $100. And each city had its own book. Over that.

Haha so true.

[Faust]

Depends on the object. If it's a CD/DVD - I don't really care. But the physicality of the object is inherent to a magazine.

[Fuuma]

Wait, are you guys seriously pretending people writing for magazines weren't as retarded as bloggers?

There is a strong occupational and monetary commitment to magazines but thinking already had blog-depth (i.e.none).

[BSR]

Wait, are you guys seriously pretending people writing for magazines weren't as retarded as bloggers?

There is a strong occupational and monetary commitment to magazines but thinking already had blog-depth (i.e.none).

totally agree
it seems inevitable that fashion talk is 99% doomed to bullshit: i have in mind for instance hagiographic-style biographic anecdotes about deified designers touched by the God's finger (see most papers introducing brands or designers), or extremely poor art critic: see the ridicule of runaway reviews by ANY art critic standards (they would not be published by any serious editorial committee).

[Fuuma]

totally agree
it seems inevitable that fashion talk is 99% doomed to bullshit: i have in mind instance hagiographic-style biographic anecdotes about deified designers touched by the God's finger (see most papers introducing brands or designers), or extremely poor art critic: see the ridicule of runaway reviews by ANY art critic standards (they would not be published by any serious editorial committee).

Fashion journalism is YSL's death in Paris Match with archive pictures by Jean-Claude Sauer. Very professional.

[Faust]

Wait, are you guys seriously pretending people writing for magazines weren't as retarded as bloggers?

There is a strong occupational and monetary commitment to magazines but thinking already had blog-depth (i.e.none).

To be sure there was always a ton of fluff, but some magazines have always had quality content. Of course newspapers are better than magazines, because they don't rely on fashion advertising - NYT has better fashion content than any magazine out there. But, most importantly, magazines and newspapers have access to major fashion players - bloggers don't (not to mention the ability to put together photo shoots, etc).

[Fuuma]

To be sure there was always a ton of fluff, but some magazines have always had quality content. Of course newspapers are better than magazines, because they don't rely on fashion advertising - NYT has better fashion content than any magazine out there. But, most importantly, magazines and newspapers have access to major fashion players - bloggers don't (not to mention the ability to put together photo shoots, etc).

I agree with you that trad journalism is more professional. I was talking about intellectual rigor.

[LA Guy]

One point that has not been brought up is that the vast majority of fashion publications, from GQ to 10 men to Gap Press Men, are not meant to be serious journalistic enterprises. They are a form of porn, meant to elicit lust in the same way that Playboy and Penthouse do, just with different subject matter (not my words, but I thought that they were apt).

That's not to say that there are good fashion critics out there, but very few people buy fashion magazines for the articles. People like the nice pictures. The New York Times and the International Herald Tribune can afford their "serious journalism" approaches because fashion is not their bread and butter. Even so, I heard from a pretty reliable source that NYT's Critical Shopper was let go for being too critical in favor of a new, more positive writer.

Blogs and forums are just as good, if not better, at exuding enthusiasm and hype, which is what most people want in addition to pretty pictures and, more often then not, prices, because yes, while fashion has an artistic component, ultimately, fashion designers need to sell you something every 3, 6, or 12 months.

[Faust]

/\ Are you talking about Cintra Wilson?

Actually GQ will have a (attempt at) serious article here and there (so will Playboy and Vanity Fair). And even the soundbites are usually well-written by a journalist with extensive experience and knowledge of fashion (Tim Blanks, Sarah Mower, etc). They might not be serious, but they may be interesting and well-written. Still, I am not denying the ton of fluff.

[ProfMonnitoff]

Here's a look at Time's iPad app. Obviously it's not a fashion magazine, but surely some aspects can be translated.



Some thoughts:
- Most of this stuff is completely useless fluff. Five different ways of viewing the table of contents? Interactive ads? Buying music and other content from within the app? Who cares...?
- The best part (although this isn't unique to tablets, the internet really does the same if a bit more rough around the edges) is that it eliminates traditional notions of space. You can have 100 full-size photos with your article if that's what you want. You can include video. etc.
- One aspect I find very interesting is the built-in comments system. Also already exists on news websites of course, and most commenters tend to be dumb as bricks. But nothing like this really exists for traditional fashion magazines. The conversation is on forums and things like that, which are separate from the content, so many will never even find it. Instead, it's now integrated. By hooking the comment system up to a good account system (facebook/twitter/etc integration?), conversations can be sustained throughout multiple articles, even from different magazines.

I honestly don't know where digital publishing is going, but it will be interesting to see.