State of the Industry Address

[SuE]

Atelier and Blackbird both gone within a year... BoF and/or SZ should conduct some exit interviews with these folks and find out how it all fell down.

[snafu]

Yes i would love to hear from the team at A in an interview.

I had always assumed they were doing fantastically. I personally respect their very own aesthetic and certainly leaders within the fashion field and stuck to their aesthetic principles.

I would say this is the store i would least to expect to go and certainly from my view quite sad. Maybe if they had a add to cart button on the site things would be different? But i certainly respect their approach to business: Good photographs, real models, beautiful store interior, professional staff, and of all a strong buy.

I hope they all have success wherever they go from here. I hope the loyal clients get the best deals.

They were a far stronger store than any others we no here; Yves & Rick pieces specifically for them, what other store does that.

[Peasant]

Dark times for sure. The best menswear store in existence soon to be gone. They'll likely be around through the holidays while the last of the product is eliminated. I was getting up to head there for a pair of shoes before I saw the email. Luckily made it in early, there was a lot of incredible product but it was going quickly.

Anyway.. Best of luck to Karlo, Curtis, James, Satoru, D and the rest of the Atelier homies. Best store ever. End of an era.

[zamb]

While my work was not sold there, I am sad to see them go, it was good to know that a store like this existed in NYC. this closure speaks volumes across the globe as to the state of our niche, and begs the question of how many of these stores that seem rather healthy from the outside are just one step away from closing?

my perspective in all of this is that several things will have to change to make this area of the industry whole.............I never did business with Atelier and always heard very good things about them but here is my perspective

1). Clothing prices are too damn high. 6K jackets do well for the egos of designers and promote the elite brand agenda but does not do well for the reality (pure numbers) of business.
2). There is a need for diversity in stores offerings. Atelier was awesome in its aesthetic vision and presentation - the best of the best, but i think they needed a set of second tier brands with cheaper price-points to balance out the numbers. i could be wrong here, but this is simply my observation
3). There needs to be more open communication and honesty between all parties. I CANNOT speak for Atelier, and can only say good things based on dialogue between myself and my peers who did business with them but some of these stores do not communicate well and only are shooting themselves in the foot.
4). I sincerely hope Atelier can come back in some form in NYC their knowledge, insight and offering should not just simply disappear into ether...........

[cjbreed]

snafu - those are my sentiments exactly

zamb - i am glad you posted this. and i strongly agree with you.

i think this is an opportunity for us. many of SZ's active members are a rare combination of global shopping experts with a great deal of knowledge and insight into fashion as an art as well as an industry. i'd like to get a dialogue going about the current and future state of these niche designers and their retail partners. maybe they will listen to us. and whats good for us is good for them.

these stores are so vital and necessary and central to this little passion of ours that the fact that this one is closing is a real bummer and potentially a wake up call to us as consumers but also to the vendors and designers themselves. i can't help but speculate that some of these labels weren't doing Atelier any favors.

i was just talking with a friend about this.

i am of the opinion that some of the elders of this niche have grown stagnant, while simultaneously raising their prices to critical defcon 4 levels. for example - who the hell is buying LUC at full retail anymore? with few exceptions its essentially the same thing its been for years. i love it but i'm not willing to pay for it anymore. m.a+ is in almost the same situation. i love m.a+, his leather goods (including jackets and pants) and footwear are second to none and the quality of his work is amazing. but when you make the same thing over and over, well....we already have one of each of your 5 designs. and it is insanely expensive so why buy more? and a1923? well......i don't even have to say it do i? and ccp, the dark overlord of this whole thing, hasn't produced a new collection in nearly 4 years. it makes it hard on a retailer when his core inventory is in this condition. i really feel like there aren't as many new clients buying this as there are old clients that aren't buying it anymore.

also, while i respect Atelier's vision, and their needs to be home for thamanyah's man dresses etc, you really need to supplement that with something a little more accessible, both in terms of price and design.

also, there are a lot of men out there with $$ and an interest in sick as fuck clothing that don't really want to look like fashion victims playing dress up. way more of us than those that are willing and able to dress like everyday is a great day for cosplay. i'm just sayin'

also, it seems like many of the up and coming labels in this niche just aren't really taking off. i can't definitively say why. my guess is that, in some combination or another, its either that the design isn't resonating with the people, the price is too high, or the quality is not there. OR it just looks like a pale imitation of something we'd rather wait to buy on the 2nd hand market.

well thats all i have for now...

[Anomie]

Several things have changes since Atelier first opened:

1.) Prices have risen to potentially unsustainable levels

2.) There are far more brands and more stores that cater to this niche

3.) Ecommerce has dramatically altered the retail landscape

4.) The proliferation in social media makes it a lot easier for a new brand to get traction or said another way to take market share away from the established brands

5.) NYC has changed bigtime (not sure how they are actually doing but H. Lorenzo certainly seemed to be cleaned out on a recent trip as an example). Many creative types have left the city...

[chandler]

I agree with many of the comments above. I would love to read an interview. Very sad to see them going, had great (but far too few) experiences with them.

Touching base on Zamb's and other comments, one other advantage to including lower priced and less agressive clothing is it provides a growth path for new consumers. I for one needed to take baby steps to explore my aesthetic. Fortunately it was somewhat stable by the time I happened into Atelier. But a curious new consumer could be very intimidated there because of the financial and emotional committment to that aesthetic. Having said that, Atelier probably wouldn't have been the fascinating place it was if it had that longer runway of "intro" clothes.

Hoping the next adventure for the A-team is fulfilling.

[Faust]

I don't think Atelier closing is the end of the world. Sure, they were a trail blazer, and MANY have followed in their footsteps. I agree on some points, ESPECIALLY that prices are absolutely insane. I hope this is a wakeup call for all designers.

However, before you go crying GREED!! - I would like to remind you that one Euro is equal to nearly 1.4 dollars after you factor in transaction costs. It's really hard for ANY store in the US to compete with Europeans when Americans have to pay an automatic 40% premium just on the exchange rate. Hence your $5-6k leather jackets.

People shop differently. Local markets matter less and less, showrooming is more and more prevalent, and so on. In this day and age a store has to work extra hard to retain a loyal clientele. Young kids know what they want before they walk in to a store - they have done their homework on the Internet and have asked their peers.

[zamb]

I don't think Atelier closing is the end of the world. Sure, they were a trail blazer, and MANY have followed in their footsteps. I agree on some points, ESPECIALLY that prices are absolutely insane. I hope this is a wakeup call for all designers and retailers

fixed............

[Dorje]

I also agree with most of the sentiments posted here, but especially pricing.

While I'm not an expert on the fashion biz, I'm a lot more familiar with other luxury markets and I build/sell high end audio gear. Since '09 things have not been good, especially with the mid-line market segments. Most high end audio/video stores have also gone out of business across the USA.

The only market segment that seems to remain unaffected is the ultra high end, which in audio means 6-figure + systems. In fashion that means designers are raising prices so they are not caught in that "mid-line" luxury market stagnation. There are simply a lot less folks with middle class incomes and a reasonable amount of disposable income. Folks who have so much money they don't know what to do with it and are unconcerned with the price of anything are still in the same position. So from what I can see, you need to either appeal to the ultra-rich and charge obscene amounts of money so they feel good about buying the best, or offer a value for the money that people who need to be concerned about their finances can appreciate.

I for one am in the latter group and most of the established designers in this niche have priced me out. I have a few items from such designers but only because I got lucky shopping.

In any case, I think we will see a lot more designers selling direct to the public via their own webshops and offering people a fair value for their money. I think zamb is a perfect example of that. And I am attempting to do the same in my own niche. It's really difficult to follow the traditional marketing model anymore, and if you do direct sales the prices can be half what they would be using traditional marketing and distribution through B&M stores. And this is why all the B&M stores are going out of business.

[avout]

People shop differently. Local markets matter less and less, showrooming is more and more prevalent, and so on. In this day and age a store has to work extra hard to retain a loyal clientele. Young kids know what they want before they walk in to a store - they have done their homework on the Internet and have asked their peers.

This is true, but I'd go even further and say the closing of Atelier highlights the excessive optimism of the idea that a small but loyal fanbase can support anything. A few times I read on here that, yes, A's prices were high, but their commitment and service were enough to ensure that those critical loyal customers kept coming back. Unfortunately the numbers just don't add up.

This is, by definition, a very aloof niche, but I'm not sure anyone can really afford aloofness these days.

[i-d-g]

This thread has raised some very interesting points.

What's the most sustainable system now?

First of all, this forum has always made it clear how obviously unsustainable fast fashion is. That is one side of the coin. The other side of the coin is what is being discussed in this thread. Is our niche too slow to evolve? Too expensive? Not accessible enough? Sometimes I feel like our niche is too anti-everything. We often feel distain towards many things which are vital to our own brands/stores survival. The fashion world evolves too quickly, but are we (as a small sector of it) evolving too slowly? The whole thing doesn't make sense unless there is some constant turnover.

This is an open and very honest question from a fairly new member: Which way is the right way?

[Faust]

Why, are you looking to open a store?

[i-d-g]

Haha, not quite. Just 19 years old and concerned with my career prospects.

[Faust]

Don't go into fashion, that's my career advice.

Look, people need to chill the fuck out. I respect Atelier and the folks behind as much as anyone - it was a breath of fresh air when they opened in NYC and to be sure they have spawned many imitators, especially since SZ has come along and blew wide open the whole goth/artisanal thing.

Nevertheless, they are still a niche retailer. We aren't talking about Barneys or Lane Crawford going out of business here. While it certainly raises some questions, this is way far from the collapse of the fashion industry or a menswear market or even this segment of it. This whole aesthetic is blowing up now and there will be no stopping it.

However, now is the moment for those who are in the heart of this segment to consider that this has always been a niche, that it has always been a difficult proposition - even Rick said this in an interview published just yesterday - and it's up to them to make it less difficult at least by lowering prices a bit. Or they will be at risk of being put out of business a) by lower priced imitators b) by fashion conglomerates who have the machinery at their disposal.