Men's Fragrances

[Fenix]

I would say the same goes for Mad et Len and Nu_Be on this forum (maybe because these are commonly stocked at the web stores interesting for the SZ crowd).

I think you are completely confused. Mad et Len is just really fucking good....

[Shifts]

The packaging and concept is – yes. Also I never said anything bad quality-wise about them, I just meant they are also a part of Good Taste under the SZ umbrella. But actually, apart from packaging and concept, I've been underwhelmed by Mad et Len so far.

[jabronicoolword]

shifts- and I'm not trying to be a dick here, just genuinely curious: can you describe a bit more why you give FM so much credit? I love the fragrances (Portrait of a Lady, Carnal Flower, few others) as well as the whole concept of curating a great collection, but personally I've never thought that the brand was doing anything THAT creative or different. I certainly don't think they're doing anything innovative or pushing the market in a certain direction the way Montale has for the past decade. Also, I'd give ELdO some more chances- if we want to talk about doing things on the fringe, experimenting, and making cool indy-artsy shit, they're really at the front of the line for me (and I don't just mean Secretions Magnifique).

[byhand]

The packaging and concept is – yes. Also I never said anything bad quality-wise about them, I just meant they are also a part of Good Taste under the SZ umbrella. But actually, apart from packaging and concept, I've been underwhelmed by Mad et Len so far.

Does Mad Et Len even make fragrances for the body? I thought they were only in the home scent market with potpourri, candles and sprays for the home. I need some of that stuff. I think I have dead creatures rotting in my walls. Can someone familiar with the brand's collection of scents recommend one or two of them? I have no idea which to choose - as long as it doesn't smell like dead animals.

[Shifts]

^ As far as I know, they only make room fragrances yes. Mad et Len was name-dropped as example as one of those identity markers. But fragrance as fragrance. I have been caught dousing myself in Diptyque room spray.

jabronicoolword: You are not being a dick. This is a discussion about opinion and taste and in those you have to ask questions to gain further understanding in someone's point of view.

I might not be extremely fond of all of Frederic Malle's offerings, some even make me a bit nauseous (looking at you Noir Epices), but I'm yet to come across one which is poorly constructed. They also have a fairly slow release rate and take their time before a new fragrance is out on the market. A welcomed way of doing it inmo.

About ELdO: Yeah, some of their stuff is really pushing the envelopes, but at the same time maybe not as much as they pretend. When everything is in a shocking name it becomes a bit dull. My biggest problem with many of the EldO fragrances (which I enjoy quite a bit even though I bash them here) is that they come across as thin and hollow. They smell empty and flat. The smell in it self can still be charming and interesting, but I often find them a bit one-dimensional.

[Faust]

Shifts, you are betraying your ignorance when you talk about mad et Len. Even their candles are made with essential oils as opposed to other candle makers that just douse them in perfume. Their scents are amazing without exception. The packaging is just the cherry on top. You make it sound like they put some shit in a black iron canister to attract goth ninjas, but it's nothing of the sort. I just happened to be the first to write about them.

You don't like the way they smell, fine - but don't go denigrating the brand of which you know nothing about.

And, yes, they make body fragrances.

[Shifts]

I thought I made it clear I used Mad et Len as an example of identity marker and did not complain about their quality at first?

You have to trust me that I am honest in my opinion (no matter how ill-informed you might think I am) about them. It seems to be good people behind the brand (I'm sure there are behind Byredo and EldO as well), at least that is the impression I've got when reading about them and yes – I know about them using essential oils. My opinion is that I am yet to be impressed by their scents.

Please don't think I can't change my mind if I have a better experience from any of these brands eventually.

[Verdandi]

I have to agree with Shifts here. While Mad et Len make nice fragrances (that are high quality without any doubt), that's all they are to me. Now 'just nice' is perfectly fine - not everything can be an Iris Silver Mist.

I think part of the problem is that the 'niche' market has exploded over the last decade and there is just way too much perfume out there these days. Which of course leads to a lot more just average and often even subpar fragrances (Creed, Bond, and Kilian being the worst offenders here).

But I am happy they'll re-release the Helmut fragrances in Europe as well.
The new fragrance marketing sucks compared to the old one. But then again, how could it not considering what it has to live up to?
The Jenny Holzer poem and Roucel's notes on the fragrance were quite something.

He wanted it to smell of his boyfriend’s secretions on clean sheets

[Shifts]

Helmut Lang Cuiron was what started my real interest in fragrance. It was a big eye-opener, have so much love for that one because of this.

[Shucks]

Shifts, you are betraying your ignorance when you talk about mad et Len.

...

Their scents are amazing without exception.

...

You don't like the way they smell, fine - but don't go denigrating the brand of which you know nothing about.

i am DEFINITELY not a fragrance buff, and i have no opinion about MeL. however, i do have an opinion on shifts. he's not the kind of guy who just randomly dismisses things for no reason, and i'm pretty sure he's one of sz's most knowledgeable members when it comes to fragrance.

let's just chalk it up to a difference in opinion/taste, and i really don't see anything unreasonable in how he expressed his.

[casem]

I would just like to add though, what fragrance (or any consumer good) isn't an identity marker? It's the way of the world, hardly particular to fragrance.

Of course it clouds our judgement, but what judgement is there without this factor? It seems impossible to separate the two anymore.

It is hard to argue taste but I must disagree with you on Le Labo. I think all their offerings are unique and some of them are fantastic and at least to my amateurish nose the quality is extremely high.

I thought I made it clear I used Mad et Len as an example of identity marker and did not complain about their quality at first?

[Shifts]

casem83: You are right, they are. When I mentioned them like that I meant they are the kind of objects many people choose to show off on Instagram (Pinterest, Tumblr) or other blogs in still life pictures. Very commonly used for styling, both by private people showing off their homes and in more official publications.

Right now Byredo, at least in Sweden, is appearing everywhere. Typical image:

[Faust]

Not knocking Shifts, Shucks. I said he's free not to like the scents, even if I can't comprehend why. :)

[Dane]

I don't think Malle works any differently than any other art director, except instead of coming up with a bid, he lets the perfumer do their thing and he directs after that. It's not what I would call innovative, it's just different. Him promoting the perfumer is a novel idea I guess though.

Perfume is 50% direction, 50% perfumer. The issue with today's perfumes is that the direction (coming from the big companies/panel testing, etc.) overwhelms the art of the perfumer. I think Malle strikes a good balance.

The only exception to have the a peculiar, yet brilliant balance would be Serge Lutens. As far as I've read, Lutens comes up with the idea and pushes the perfumer (Christopher Sheldrake) to leave any sort of comfort zone. Theirs is a relationship that cannot be replicated.

...and I'm rambling.

[darkbydesign]

^^I like your perspectives there, but am biased since those are two of my favorite perfumers. Malle because I love anything Dominique Ropion makes and Serge for the exact symbiotic relationship you describe. I think both houses allow for chemistry that pushes their perfumers to the limits and that doesn't have to mean "odd" or even "novel" but it does mean quality, often wonderfully derived stories about their scents, and time to make those derivations. (i.e. - great ingredients and a lot of iteration before putting out a scent. POAL for example)