WTF

[Garley]

I'm hwith Hwith on this. The dude is being silly and nerdy because that's a language his audience understands well. I don't agree with a lot of what he's saying, but I do think his intentions are good. We all know SZ can be unfriendly and hermetic towards newcomers, and there should be a more accessible place for people to start off from. A lot of men take their first steps in fashion on MFA, and I think it's good to have stuff like this there to show them that men's clothing is not all #menswear.

I don't think it's a reasonable endeavor for me to try to address everyone's concerns about my guide. However, I believe avout sees it the way I do. I wanted to present an alternative to the bland menswear that is normally seen on MFA. I understood that my audience would enjoy it if it were presented in a tongue-in-cheek way and I felt as though it would be fun to write. I didn't write the entire guide in theme - Parts II and III were written in a more serious tone.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm a beginner - at the top of the 'guide' I state "I'm far from being an expert," and I link to a number of SZ discussions by people who I do respect as experts. As Rosenrot suggested, I'd happily accept constructive criticism.

I'm sorry but if I was an SA in any store and a guy asked me "Does this jacket smell this way because it's made of hemp?", which of course means he was SMELLING the jacket...I'd be a bit freaked out.

You didn't need to get your face near that jacket to smell it. You could be in the same room and smell it.

I really don't understand why everyone in this thread felt the need to attack my character - if you write me, I'll address your concerns respectfully.

[lowrey]

As Rosenrot suggested, I'd happily accept constructive criticism.

Here is constructive feedback: don't steal people's shit.

Its already a stepping stone for many people to post their photos online. Yes, its the internet and an open forum, we acknowledge information will leak, but we don't expect that to be done by another forum member who uses the photos to his benefit.

[Garley]

Here is constructive feedback: don't steal people's shit.

The images I used were sourced from a forum which is publicly accessible whose rules do not state that images are not to be saved or used in a different format. While my the tone for part of my writing was tongue-in-cheek, that was to cater to my audience. I don't believe I treated those images disrespectfully. I used them as examples of a style done correctly.

[BSR]

to be honest, i think the whole RPG setting, with levels, classes and all this very well describe the kind of attitude some SZers display towards their 'fashion' pathway, esp. those who never post anything else than 'where2kop', sizing issues and validation mirror pictures. that's cool, garley, you provided a metaphor for the slums of SZ.

[Faust]

its tongue in cheek but he's dead serious at the same time. it is funny and there is a touch of truth in it but i'll be damned if there's not a goth ninja style guide in the sidebar on a subforum of one of the biggest websites in the world. i can't help but get pissed at that.

i hate how it perpetuates the word goth ninja which is the dumbest thing i've ever heard and i hate how it dumbs down personal style into a paint by numbers step by step on how to play dress up for bro's. and i hate how it takes something cool and makes it seem really really silly.

he forgot the first rule of sz club

This.

Also, love the "Rick Owens Compact Boots." I thought it was Garley's job, but it is LVR's!

[lowrey]

The images I used were sourced from a forum which is publicly accessible whose rules do not state that images are not to be saved or used in a different format.

theres no rule? if you want to be a smart ass about it, I'm quite certain that copyright legislation gives photographers the right to decide how their images are used. Obviously this doesn't apply in this age of copy-paste blogs, tumblr and all, but that doesn't change the fact that what you did is disrespectful towards this community and its members.

you can continue "catering to your audience" elsewhere.

[Faust]

to be honest, i think the whole RPG setting, with levels, classes and all this very well describe the kind of attitude some SZers display towards their 'fashion' pathway, esp. those who never post anything else than 'where2kop', sizing issues and validation mirror pictures. that's cool, garley, you provided a metaphor for the slums of SZ.

But what about the good neighborhoods of SZ?

[Rosenrot]

Are you the person whose photo has personally been used in that guide? If yes, let him know you feel uncomfortable it's being used. Don't have to get your panties stuck in a bunch. Wait until someone actually insults your photographs you'll wish you'll be back on the pedestal. I don't see anyone giving a flying fuck when photos are freely tumblr-ed or worse, ending up on sz-quotes. Where are the pitchforks? Why the double standard?

Frankly this insular, us vs them attitude is not going to make people outside of this forum less ignorant. Some of you seem to want to see a change in people's buying behaviour, but noone's doing anything about it except by preaching to the choir. And when someone's doing something outside of this circle that leads new people into this forum, there's a giant backlash, not to mention that this is not the first instance it happened, btw. Why the holier-than-thou attitude? I am beginning to have the impression that some of you want this 'dark aesthetics' to remain a secret club or something.

This butthurt circle-jerky reaction is embarrassing.

[shdws]

Best post ever in relation to the discussion going on^, which I barely even pay attention to tbh as it's quite stupid, no joke, borderline childish.

Who cares if he has a "guide", so what if he influences more people into what he calls "goth ninja"

However I must admit I do find it funny that there is an actual guide as to how to dress, let alone people actually reading said guide, or even searching upon it in the first place :/

Is there a guide on how to dress like a hobo? kpop star? kanye west?

[lowrey]

Are you the person whose photo has personally been used in that guide?

There was a photo of mine there as well, but thats not the point. I've seen my pictures on Yahoo auctions as well, it happens, thats why I cut out my face. The problem is that he took a big bunch of photos of people who intended them to be used here, and he is obviously using them and information he gathered to put himself on the pedestal over there.

I don't see anyone giving a flying fuck when photos are freely tumblr-ed or worse, ending up on sz-quotes. Where are the pitchforks? Why the double standard?

Why do you think we don't give a flying fuck? There's not much to do about anonymous tumblr pages, ask one to remove photos and there are 3 more posting something else. There is obviously a difference between these and what this guy is doing, are you really saying you don't see it? that sz-quotes thing was an equally bad joke.

And when someone's doing something outside of this circle that leads new people into this forum, there's a giant backlash, not to mention that this is not the first instance it happened, btw. Why the holier-than-thou attitude? I am beginning to have the impression that some of you want this 'dark aesthetics' to remain a secret club or something.

Why is it difficult to understand that we don't want a person who has spent two months here acting as some sort of a preacher or spokesperson of the forum? He is not posting a link here saying "hey guys I found a cool community". I think this just goes too far and makes it disturbing, at least to me as someone who is more invested in SZ, and seemingly to some others as well.

It's kind of like someone walking into a store, looking at the merchandise, then picking some of it up and going out on the street to showcase and push it to people walking by.

Why the holier-than-thou attitude? I am beginning to have the impression that some of you want this 'dark aesthetics' to remain a secret club or something.

What exactly do you consider holier-than-thou? The fact that we welcome new members (there is no entrance exam) but at the same time our goal is not to have as many members as possible? If we wanted a secret club, perhaps this wouldn't be a publicly accesible forum.

[Fuuma]

agreed it's not a joke/parody. but the seriousness of this enterprise makes it much more grotesque.

Isn't grotesque something SZers are usually fascinated with? I think people are just pissed they got painted by one of Dubuffet's protégés instead of Lucian Freud.

[AKA*NYC]

Isn't grotesque something SZers are usually fascinated with? I think people are just pissed they got painted by one of Dubuffet's protégés instead of Lucian Freud.

best of sz

[endersgame]

The images I used were sourced from a forum which is publicly accessible whose rules do not state that images are not to be saved or used in a different format. While my the tone for part of my writing was tongue-in-cheek, that was to cater to my audience. I don't believe I treated those images disrespectfully. I used them as examples of a style done correctly.

i think you should just say that you exercised your "fair use" rights on these images and quotes. and that this guide was merely a educational/parody/commentary on the aesthetic. i don't think you are using these guides for any commercial use so you're fine in this dept.

if you want to spread the news and inform others, what don't you make good by buying an entire pallet of SZ magazines and distribute them to your friends? that's your guide, right there..

[profondo nero]

[Garley]

i hate how it perpetuates the word goth ninja which is the dumbest thing i've ever heard

Unfortunately, that's what people already call it. Have you ever had a friend come up with a terrible nickname for you. It's always the worst one that sticks, right? Sometimes you just have to learn to laugh at yourself.

Are you the person whose photo has personally been used in that guide? If yes, let him know you feel uncomfortable it's being used.

This. PM me here or on Reddit and I will edit it.

However I must admit I do find it funny that there is an actual guide as to how to dress, let alone people actually reading said guide, or even searching upon it in the first place :/

Not everyone has someone to teach them. Fortunately, MFA is a very beginner friendly place.

Why is it difficult to understand that we don't want a person who has spent two months here acting as some sort of a preacher or spokesperson of the forum? He is not posting a link here saying "hey guys I found a cool community".

I've been lurking SZ and MFA for over a year. I don't post on SZ because this forum is not friendly to outsiders.

I'm not an expert, I admit that in the guide. And I posted a number of links to posts and threads on SZ, stating that Stylezeitgeist has the "essential reading list."

I think people are just pissed they got painted by one of Dubuffet's protégés instead of Lucian Freud.

I see it as more of a Nan Goldin move - I published a picture of someone I had taken while they were changing in their messy apartment.