Endorphinz, boy i enjoined reading your story...what would I give to know what ny in the 80s was like, especially at studio 54...sounds like the kind of rock n roll I like...
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trouble with 54 was that there was NO rock n roll .... all disco shit that I detested, but put up with just to have a shot at meeting incredible (and beautiful) people. CBGBS gave me my music fix ... and Max's before that. Max's was the best but i was a little too young. it closed shortly after I was into the scene.
I actually did see bianca on the dance floor @54 but in reality i couldn't have cared less. there were much nicer, and much more 'available' chicks hovering about.
if I had to summarize NYC club life in the early 80's I would say
very, very long bath room lines.
historically, drugs have been part of any society but in the late 70's and early 80's drugs WERE society, in nyc anyway.... especially the nyc fashion industry. there was no avoiding or escaping their grasp. they were an expected novelty at the time. expected cuz you needed to have them and a novelty cuz the whole scene was new.
having gms of blow delivered by messenger to the showroom for merchandise managers and buyers was typical. weighing and dividing kilos in the president's (of a $30mill co)office was routine, but ALWAYS exhilarating
crazy times no doubt. i wish I remembered them. :)
trouble with the belt is that I stopped wearing belts.... but I will start again
I hesitated telling an 'old man's story' but I'm glad I did and that some of you enjoyed it. truth be told, it IS better than most stories told around the thanksgiving dinner table.
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Originally posted by Faust View PostThe problem for me is that these houses are not bringing any letters to the alphabet of fashion. They do what they do, and what they do is wonderful, but they do not exist outside of the realm of a small number of cognoscenti and therefore have no influence on fashion as a cultural force. I am interested in fashion as such.i traded my LUC jeans + Julius belt + Neil Barrett jeans for a blamain biker jeans
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/\ I go back and forth on the fashion as art thing - not settled. What I am interested in is fashion as a cultural phenomenon and its own zeitgeist. I am interested in the designers that make waves and bring something new to the conversation. Artisans don't really do that.Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde
StyleZeitgeist Magazine
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They don't...but what the artisans do is keep my interest with regard to my materialism in general.
There aren't too many designers left that continue to push boundaries and create entirely new shapes and silhouettes like they have in the past (thinking of something like Kawakubo's lumps, or Yamamoto's oversized jackets...or even recently Damir Doma's interpretation of draping and flowing garments).
It seems like the last interesting things that happened to clothing in general was twisting some seams (wamp womb). I like to think that, like music, there are infinite new possibilities on the horizon for fashion, but when the body continues to generally have the same shape, I'm wondering if we've run out of ideas...a horribly pessimistic thought, so I dearly hope I'm proven wrong, and no doubt someone more creative than I will do just that.
In the meantime though, being able to handle beautifully unique fabrics, hand-crafted and sculpted clothing and shoes will have to suffice, so my appreciation for the craftsman in the industry keeps my interest in the overall subject of clothing....otherwise I have to head back to the perfume forums, and you have no idea how that thought pains me.i traded my LUC jeans + Julius belt + Neil Barrett jeans for a blamain biker jeans
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Originally posted by Faust View PostWhat I am interested in is fashion as a cultural phenomenon and its own zeitgeist. I am interested in the designers that make waves and bring something new to the conversation. Artisans don't really do that.
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The problem I see with fashion being it's own cultural happening are the associations already made with established cultural and ethnic groups. As in, this type of clothing or "fashion" is just a part of say Hip-hop. Cothing is commonly a sub-type of something bigger and well known. The word fashion itself is tied to so many cultures and it carries a different meaning in each. If the world can't define and categorize it into it's own little box with a new name I don't see how it can take off on it's own.
But if it can happen I see it happening with SZ-ish styles and brands. I don't really know if it would be a good thing.. becoming that big. When instead of saying "Artistic intellectuals dress like this." you'll say "People who wear that are smart and artistic."
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^ i agree in part although maybe in concept and not in terminology since i am neither an intellectual or artistic.
sounds very disturbing but sometimes i wonder if the reason i like fashion is because of the CARE that must be present in order to present a collection. kind of a revolt against mass anything -- although artisanism isn't necessarily fashion or runway collections the ideas behind a great show is neccessarily careful
tl;dr
high fashunz, approachable limited commodity that requires devotion & understanding in proper execution.
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yes, any dope can put together a good fit...any dope but me perhaps ;)
Originally posted by Peasant View PostThe problem I see with fashion being it's own cultural happening are the associations already made with established cultural and ethnic groups. As in, this type of clothing or "fashion" is just a part of say Hip-hop. Cothing is commonly a sub-type of something bigger and well known. The word fashion itself is tied to so many cultures and it carries a different meaning in each. If the world can't define and categorize it into it's own little box with a new name I don't see how it can take off on it's own.
But if it can happen I see it happening with SZ-ish styles and brands. I don't really know if it would be a good thing.. becoming that big. When instead of saying "Artistic intellectuals dress like this." you'll say "People who wear that are smart and artistic."
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Edit: didnt really notice that this is out of place as far as the thread goes but im on a phone and im not navigating too well tonight.
I like to embrace the idea of fashion as art and designers as artists just because it gives me hope when I see the legions of cookie-cutter designs to think that there is an unreached next level. I almost compartmentalize the well designed utilitarian from the aesthetic focused work because it feels rare when those to collide in an impressive manner.
Plus, it allows me to admire the work as art rather than as consumer products. A lot of the things I find myself really liking in newer lines are things I know I could never wear. And there is something about that I like as opposed to the years where I simply scanned through new presentations planning on what I was going to buy.
It's definitely a stretch at times to create the fashion as art connection...it's such a fine line between vision and absurdity and I know I can't make the call except personally. As an artist, I do have a problem with art as something that just sits around and gathers dust. I like design that serves a purpose more than something with an obscure message that serves an artist's vision.
Plus, (and I guess it's been said by rick that he doesn't see himself as an artist) it's easier to justify some of the things I see on the runway that feels like it's so extended and impractical that it's a necessary piece of the puzzle that makes a line mire complete. If I was a fashion designer, I'd mix pieces that will be in the new line with pieces that would never be for consumption just to create something a little less practical but still economically practical where there aren't shoes and outerwear that you know isn't going to really sell.
I guess part of the runway process is to guage interest and pre-booking, which may be the same type thing but still it would be cool if people were all clamoring for something that was very impractical as part of a presentation only for people to find out it wouldn't be available to buyers. Even for accessories.
Maybe I just think it's difficult for a designer as an artist to separate vision from consumerism. Especially if you're designing for a company that is focused solely on the bottom line. Your 'vision' eventually has to intersect at some point with feasibility and that kind of compromise is what leads to conservatism...which isn't really conducive to the idea of art.Originally posted by mizzarSorry for being kind of a dick to you.
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even our favorite designers seem to move further away from art and more toward commerce, maybe it's synergistic with success.
I don't think it's a secret that I love rick owens but i recall him saying jewelry on men is silly then coming out with bracelets, ditto sunglasses, perfume, etc — it's louis vuitton disease where you make pieces that are attainable for everyone which seems to be the very root of fast-fashion, consumerism, etc. I am not even sure rick designed his last few runway collections.
I know I was getting flamed but in a small way, even many ccp pieces seem more an absurdist and cynical look at/pushing the boundaries of consumerism more than some means of artistic expression.
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I guess this discussion is now playing on the perceptions of how you view 'art'. Is art only considered art when there is a lack of consciousness regarding the external environment (be it consumption, economic feasibility, etc)? I'm struggling here to voice what I'm trying to say...
Essentially - just because an artist is conscious of selling his work, it doesn't make his work any less 'art-worthy'. Art is in the eye of the beholder, no? So even if Rick himself may not view himself as an artist, I'm sure many of us here would say that his work has touched us beyond any kind of painting we've seen in a gallery done by some 'artist'.
kunk - Are you trying to say that CCP's goal in doing what he does is to see how far people would go to buy/spend money on his weird shit? Come on, now...
Great story btw endorphinz.
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Originally posted by Faust View Post/\ I go back and forth on the fashion as art thing - not settled. What I am interested in is fashion as a cultural phenomenon and its own zeitgeist. I am interested in the designers that make waves and bring something new to the conversation. Artisans don't really do that.Selling CCP, Harnden, Raf, Rick etc.
http://www.stylezeitgeist.com/forums...me-other-stuff
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