random fashion thoughts

[Faust]

i think the people that came for the classifieds only were never really active posters to begin with, but i think you definitely have a valid point there. lots of people came for the classifieds and stayed for the community. now they don't come for the classifieds anymore, and the community is now spread over all the other sources and platforms for info and images that were once only available here.

but one additional point is this: look at the last time the threads for some of our most revered designers were active. ccp, label under construction, m.a+, carpe diem. these used to be some of the primary drivers for this forum. and now...nothing. and thats due in part to the fact that two of them now do almost nothing and the other two are still doing the same thing they did 6 years ago, they just charge a lot more for it.

ann dem is retired, damir doma sucks, a1923 is absurdly priced and hardly a design innovator, paul harnden is still making the same jacket but charging more for it, and bbs is still somehow being mostly ignored around these parts, not sure why. price?

rick owens was another major force in the beginning, and he still is, but perhaps not what he once was. many of us got older and can't really wear much of his more interesting stuff anymore. and what i can wear, i am bored with. but he is still the reigning lord of sz, no doubt.

i don't know, i just think that a big reason forum activity is down on this fashion forum in particular is that the fashion itself isn't worth talking about as much anymore. not in the same way it once was. some of the older posters are moving on or losing interest and there's not as much for the new guys to get excited about. is there? who? what?

Cosign. Also, Number (N)ine is gone and whatever Raf is doing is a pale shadow of what it was. I am betting on Undercover's recovery to infuse some passion into this corner of fashion. It's doing it for me on the personal style level for sure. I wish more people would pay attention to it. Also, CDG H+ has been doing strong work that's hidden by the surrealist extravaganza that Rei puts on the runway.

[stadsvandringar]

This is an interesting topic. For the Japanese labels like Undercover and even CDG -- I think a lot of this has to do with accessibility. UC, CDG and many of the smaller Japanese labels have very limited availability outside of Japan and cost considerably more money. Quite a bit is lost in translation just in getting it out there. The frames of reference are often pretty different and even then the pieces you may see in store are subject to conservative buyers. You just don't have the level of access that you would with the European and American labels. This forum seems to be largely driven by the US and European designers, I would assume because these are at least more available to the readership here. When these labels falter, as we've been seeing here, I think the readership also stagnates. I would argue that the Japanese brands have been plugging along as usual, operating in their own little niches and actually producing some very interesting stuff.

That said, I think there is/was/always will be some contingent looking for the immediate validation or to flip things through the classifieds. Yes, the market may be saturated and people may be looking elsewhere for their buying and selling, but I think you still get some of the validation crowd here and a smaller number of people who are seeking intelligent conversation.

The other issue has noted above is that many of the (mostly US/European) designers championed here are stagnant or gone. Fashion comes in phases, and this phase appears to be on the way out, at least from a popular perspective. People have moved on. That's not to say that this is a bad thing, this type of fashion is a distinct subculture and almost by definition it's niche. People who like it will naturally gravitate toward it and stay here. The trend hoppers will move along to the next thing. In the meantime, take advantage and get some ridiculously cheap ccp or cloak I guess.

[newp]

A lot of stagnant artisans have a 'successor', sometimes direct (a former patternmaker), sometimes indirect (just working into the same direction with their new ideas and inspiration). Just like CCP -> Deepti, m.a+ -> Taichi Murakami, Daniel Andresen deserves much more attention especially if you're already bored with LUC, Araki Yuu has a great potential (if only he has some items produced in size 3, I was unable to find even size 2 haha), Zam is setting a new plank in artisan niche of US (and not only US) and Leon Emanuel Blanck is a new king of leather jackets for me, outshining CCP in its best years. And yes, BBS is still strong and you can always start saving for a pair of m_moria


This is to say, in my opinion our audience isn't demanding for a new and 'fresh' in this particular niche, the lack of demand is felt this is why some of us think of a stagnation.
In terms of high fashion avantgarde I am indeed not happy with what's happening, those who never cease to amaze me are Rick, Yohji and Rei (mostly because of CdG family new designers like Kei Ninomiya).

[Faust]

This is an interesting topic. For the Japanese labels like Undercover and even CDG -- I think a lot of this has to do with accessibility. UC, CDG and many of the smaller Japanese labels have very limited availability outside of Japan and cost considerably more money. Quite a bit is lost in translation just in getting it out there. The frames of reference are often pretty different and even then the pieces you may see in store are subject to conservative buyers. You just don't have the level of access that you would with the European and American labels. This forum seems to be largely driven by the US and European designers, I would assume because these are at least more available to the readership here. When these labels falter, as we've been seeing here, I think the readership also stagnates. I would argue that the Japanese brands have been plugging along as usual, operating in their own little niches and actually producing some very interesting stuff.

That said, I think there is/was/always will be some contingent looking for the immediate validation or to flip things through the classifieds. Yes, the market may be saturated and people may be looking elsewhere for their buying and selling, but I think you still get some of the validation crowd here and a smaller number of people who are seeking intelligent conversation.

The other issue has noted above is that many of the (mostly US/European) designers championed here are stagnant or gone. Fashion comes in phases, and this phase appears to be on the way out, at least from a popular perspective. People have moved on. That's not to say that this is a bad thing, this type of fashion is a distinct subculture and almost by definition it's niche. People who like it will naturally gravitate toward it and stay here. The trend hoppers will move along to the next thing. In the meantime, take advantage and get some ridiculously cheap ccp or cloak I guess.

In New York I think it's true of Undercover, but not of CDG. We have the flagship and DSM (and IF and Barneys). Undercover is carried at DSM, Barneys, Idol, and even V-Files. Granted, their selection is very limited. I think H.Lorenzo has the best Undercover buy in the States. I don't see CDG as being somehow expensive for what it is compared to what other designers are charging. Undercover, possibly, because its menswear is quite streetwear heavy.

I also think that youth culture has changed. My generation grew up with fashion drawing inspiration from rock music. Today's youth is driven by hip-hop and the fashion that goes with it. So, maybe that's partly responsible for people like me not seeing much new stuff to get excited about. I really don't know what will happen once Rick calls it quits. He's the last man standing.

[DudleyGray]

I'm in agreement about Undercover, and I've really been tempted to explore less typical sides of the label, not one rooted in the all-black layered crust punk look nor the techwear. I like this imaginative creativity that is unfortunately much better reflected in the women's collections, but I guess that has always been the case. That would require color, however, and a break from Rick purchases. I'm not sure I'm capable of either.

On current designers, I've really been enjoying seeing how women design for men in high fashion: Deepti, Forme, Marvie, even Wooyoungmi. I have a motherland bias with Forme and WYM, admittedly.

It does seem like there was a bubble in that mens fashion grew really quickly beyond gay/status-oriented culture as well. I kind of miss the ignorance and naivete that necessitated more styling experimentation, often with poor results. Now I can't unsee when an outfit lacks composition or aesthetic consistency, while at the same time the good fits tend to look very "by the numbers."

[zen dog]

I'm going to take advantage of the "Random" in Random Fashion Thoughts and throw in my 5 cents (I figure s-z would cost more than 2).

First, in my optimism, I hope that many of the readers of the forums and even the contributors who have pulled back would, when purchasing something, start with the affiliates on site. I do when I can. That is an invisible support of s-z giving a sense of connectedness and no intimidation.

Second, Grailed is only bad if you come to it without doing any research. It is a reflection of what is happening elsewhere. Clothes, accessories
and how they are worn (jeans cuffed or uncuffed?) come to public scrutiny and those who only skim the surface purchase with the same consciousness.

Third, and you can delegate this to side alley on the fashion road. Don't spend all your energy bemoaning there is nothing new to wear, lulls happen. Exciting things are around in "fashion" elsewhere- think Iris van Herpen's unwearables, go to the art galleries- Nick Cave (artist, not musician) is doing amazing pieces and, although I've pulled back from the art scene, I remember fashion's or the exploration of clothing's meaning,
influence in the art world growing. You just have to sift through a lot of art to find it. That isn't such a bad thing.

[newp]

First, in my optimism, I hope that many of the readers of the forums and even the contributors who have pulled back would, when purchasing something, start with the affiliates on site. I do when I can. That is an invisible support of s-z giving a sense of connectedness and no intimidation.

It's highly visible once you use a SZ banner from the mainpage to go to the website you intend to buy from just before you actually buy it. This is what I do and this is what I advise to do, correct me if I'm wrong.

[zen dog]

You are right, newp. But I am surprised at the number of questions about finding a piece of clothing and Faust having to direct them to the affiliates at the start of the forums. (Talk about not doing your homework for Grailed- looks like it starts here

BTW I'm probably reaching too far back for artists (the 1980's) but a decorative and pattern movement was taking of in art- not the drab abstract-expresionism, not figurative but bright colors and pattern for its own sake. Robert Kushner would take his unstretched canvas paintings, wear them like capes and have a "fashion show" in the gallery.

[aussy]

Jumbled responses to the above posts:

A lot of people use adblock which, well, blocks the affiliate ads.

CDGH+ has consistently done great work, but it sits in such a weird niche ('eccentric' menswear) that those males who wear fashion are unlikely to invest in anything CDG beyond slogan bombers.

Same, Dudley. My favorite UC pieces are those that I'd never wear, ones that are more opulent or have a heavy focus on graphics, typically in browns or jewel tones. I'm glad that some part of current UC is still popular with the sufu now ig crowd though it would be great to see a wider range of Jun's pieces worn. Men's is too entrenched in trends and nostalgia to care about the inventive, wearable pieces that UC is producing right now.

[newp]

Jumbled responses to the above posts:

A lot of people use adblock which, well, blocks the affiliate ads.

I use it too but SZ and couple of other websites are added to exceptions. Of course one should know about ads here in the first place in order to enable them and this is an exact reason why I am vocal about it.

[cjbreed]

i am more interested now in brands like visvim, undercover, neighborhood, the soloist, even heritage stuff like kapital and junya than ever before. it is usually very nice quality and in small doses with proper styling can look very cool. but be careful, colors may be involved ....

[casem]

Yea, I wish there were more CDG folks on here. I actually wear a decent amount of CDG but mostly the more classic stuff.

As for undercover, its a nice balance between street and high fashion, but the quality seems off to me. I got into undercover for a short while... but wasn't really happy with the pieces after a few wears.

I think the main reason a forum like this may be waning has more to do with all the other media outlets available. I know I'm more likely to post a fit on IG but not bother to post here. And I remember when forums often had the earliest look at new collections and other insider stuff which is now widely available on major media outlets.

I don't quite buy the "fashion is crap now that's why the forum is dead" argument. But the designers that got many original members excited on here are now inactive, and the older members haven't been quick to embrace newer designers nor has there been much "young blood" to come in and pick up the slack.

(P.S. the forum is still great with great discussions, definitely not implying its dead now, just throwing in my 2cents why things are a bit slower these days)

[DudleyGray]

cjbreed, I've been curious about those labels as well, or anything more quality-focused that isn't necessarily artisanal but not vanilla either. I was in a Barney's once and looked through the Thom Browne rack, the quality was amazing. The fabric was so substantial and fit/finish really a kind of perfection, although I think that what Rick sometimes lacks in quality, he makes up for not just in design but luxury and decadence. Anyways, it's something I just never get to see by proxy of where I live and what I shop for online.

casem, I agree on UC quality, it's very hit or miss. In that vein, Miyashita has always seemed to trump Takahashi, although I recall the lamb on UC leathers to be super soft. It's a shame, because I prefer Jun's taste, and I'll always pick taste over skill, sort of like Rick over Thom. RE: media outlets, I told my ex in passing about something I read on some forum, and then she laughed at me for being on a forum in 2016.

RE: used clothing market, lower value does allow for more experimentation with aesthetics/labels that one might not feel so certain about. Personally, I know that if I'm going to spend Rick levels of money, it's a sure bet to scratch that itch. I know my sizing, I know I'll be able to combine it with other pieces, I know the quality to expect, etc. But other aesthetics could be fun to experiment with if it's just kind of a fun side thing. I know that goes against the whole slow fashion mindset here, but of course, that's a matter of moderation.

[gregor]

casem with you on uc quality. i find that nn and even the soloist (aa tees lol) really aren't top notch quality, but then again, that's not why i buy them.

i think that the references and personal touch you find in those brands is what really makes it. even if it's just a graphic, some of the stuff is so well done and relevant that it's impossible not to love. who else does such justice to the jesus and mary chain or can? they're such a great zeitgeist of pop culture, which is what i love. i still begrudge uc for their uniqlo stuff (the antithesis of what uc is to me), but they are all brilliant designers.

anyway, as far as the forums; forums are hard work. i know that sounds a bit daft but most people don't have the drive or intellect to have a genuine, lengthy discussion, or participate as part of a community, which forums are. it's so much easier and more instantly gratifying to just post something for likes on instagram. it's not just on stylezeitgeist, most of the best forums have died down because of it.

[SeptSeptSept]

I admit to be more and more bored about brands discussed here because of the growing trends they're now into

why would i spend ridiculous amount of money in a piece of clothing any trendy kid see as a "must have", I'm not willing to wear my clothing based on seasons or whatever fashion is about on global consumers mind

i find the work of Geoffrey or Zam in their whole process (manufacturing, communication, resellers etc) much more connected to the SZ spirit than any Rick, Damir...

isn't avant garde and counter culture all about destroying the previous wave ? let's wait for the new cycle then