What are you wearing today?

[Rosenrot]

BeauIXI, I'm not sure if it's the angle or the shadows in the photo but the blazer looks a little too boxy on you. I like your Nordic-power-metal hair by the way.

cjbreed, first thing that comes to my mind is CCP, and any leather jackets made of Guidi leather. Not saying they're not worth the hype, but I feel that some are using that excuse to jazz up a plain fit.

[cowsareforeating]

beau i actually like the fit. of course the top could be lightened up but the silhouette seems fine to me, contrast and all!

[cjbreed]

well i'll try to be brief here and i may end up throwing in some music analogies in order to do that. but it seems to me that zam is talking about ccp as the label that gets consistent price no matter what he does. and this may be true. but in my opinion there is good reason for that. sometimes a designer's work connects with a person so strongly and intimately that no matter what they do they will get love for it, simply because the work and the designer/label really "speak" to that person, the fan. i think this is the case with ccp. and altieri to a degree. many of their fans are rabid. and to be honest, ccp and altieri deserve it.

ccp connects and resonates with some people so strongly and on so many different levels that it is very easy to move from fan to superfan. its not just that it looks sick as fuck, but with respect to other things like research, commitment to craft, philosophy, intellectualism, skillful construction, creativity, anti-commercialism, and so on, ccp fuckin nails it. in addition, it really is exclusive and expensive, so its out of reach for most people, so when they see someone wearing a sick piece, even if they styled it poorly, people will chime in because they love it and want to participate

now the only defunct label i can think of here that gets fawned over has to be continues. cdiem, et al. surely it is not dior, or helmut lang or raf. and this is a bit different than the ccp thing. in my opinion, just about everyone we love here is living in the house that altieri built. the shoes, the clothes, and the whole conceptual vibe that we all love is all altieri. is it not? and to me it may be familiar but in no way is it bland or crappy. so if there's 2 leather shirts or 2 knit tops available, and they both look pretty similar, i'm going for the cdiem one, rather than the devoa one. or the lumen et umbra one. because, for me, altieri is the man. the man. and i want to own a piece of that. i want to participate and be a part of that and share that. not to mention it will probably be a better fit and fabric.

and finally, i really want to hear who is not getting the credit they deserve. because i'd like to learn more about whoever that is. ma+ and luc are definitely getting the credit they deserve, especially from me. so i don't feel like my love for one guy means i can't love someone else's work too. i just can't think of many new designers, that aren't necessarily pretenders to altieri's throne, that offer the same level of excitement for me that altieri and ccp do. there are some talented guys out there for sure, with unique vision, skill, imagination, etc. like in aisce, sruli recht, aitor throup and so on, but none have "nailed it" for me the way ccp and altieri do. not yet anyway. but i really really want that to happen. who is worthy? who is next!?!?

[Carcass]

merz and cjbreed

I don't think anyone is saying the designers being fawned-over don't deserve the credit. But when they're seen as the end of the line, like nothing can get any better than that, then they become the standard. Now, do we bring these masters down a notch to judge with the kiddies, or do we see some of the rising stars for what they are and judge them separately from other designers with a different vision and a different purpose?

[casem]

Interesting discussion, but aren't cjbreed and merz basically agreeing here?

[cjbreed]

Interesting discussion, but aren't cjbreed and merz basically agreeing here?

yes we are. merz said what i think better than i could...he is just making fun of me for the grateful dead thing lol

...

Oh, and please do not draw comparisons between continues and the grateful fucking dead or this shit will have to be settled pistols at dawn.

20 fucking paces.

i knew that would get misunderstood. i am not comparing them, i am comparing the loyalty and devotion of their respective fans, who, now that the touring is over, obsessively archive and adore every note they ever played at every single show, even the crappy ones lol...but i'm gonna delete it to keep it from obscuring the point.

[Faust]

Merz, you are entitled to your view, but Marvie as your candidate of choice for sartorial excellence is a weird one. And I definitely don't see you in any of her creations.

[Magic1]

I see marvie as very much a continuation of l'maltieri, albeit better than the others.

Maybe this conversation is just focussing on menswear designers, but if that was accidental, then I think Uma Wang really needs to be mentioned as her work is definitely her own, passionate (whereas I feel many menswear designers in this niche really aren't...) sophisticated and relevant. And if anyone is "worthy" or knocking it out of the park, she is.

[casem]

Who I'd really like to hear from is Zamb who's vague inferences led to all this.

[Faust]

Which is odd because there's a photo of me in HOF wearing her jacket, amongst a number of her pieces I own and enjoy. I don't think she always reaches what either she aims for or I do, but there is a lot of quality work there (and with recikli in particular..)

That I'm entitled to my opinion goes without saying. What I'd really like to hear from you would be yours. (assuming you still care to share one outside of print medium)

(Shrugs). You had just as big of a hard-on for Individual Sentiments when Yoko started (and rightfully so), so the fact that you own a few pieces from Marvie's previous collections doesn't hold much water. I saw relicki in person, and honestly, I don't care for looking like a clown from La Strada. Maybe you do. The clothes were anachronistic, but without sartorial excellence of Paul Harnden, whom you don't seem to hold in high regard either. So, that's my opinion.

[Faust]

I see marvie as very much a continuation of l'maltieri, albeit better than the others.

Maybe this conversation is just focussing on menswear designers, but if that was accidental, then I think Uma Wang really needs to be mentioned as her work is definitely her own, passionate (whereas I feel many menswear designers in this niche really aren't...) sophisticated and relevant. And if anyone is "worthy" or knocking it out of the park, she is.

There is no continuation of L'Maltieri. Individual Sentiments offered it in the beginning, but has diverged since. That book is closed and it's fine. It's fashion. Something new will come.

[Fuuma]

Isn't this kind of a crisis of what many SZers feel is the "SZ style"? That design movement is more popular than ever but has hit a dead end and other areas of fashion are more interesting right now. I'm talking about the artisan brands (bling povera viewed at large so including Poell), not Ann D, Yohji or Rick which have fuckall to do with it except that they are also sold at Atelier which has had an enormous influence on the SZ membership when it comes to the visual and even cultural universe they have created. Now I personally don't wear that stuff (I have exactly two Poell pieces left and none from the other artisan brands except Harnden) so my opinion may be quite different...

[zamb]

Interesting discussion going on here,
I didn't even know that the discussion would take this kind of turn because this isn't exactly what I had in mind when I made my original statements.

however, I am sorry to disappoint those who would think I am going to get into a public discussion of naming names of designers and giving an open critique of what I think about their work. I wont, and pragmatic wisdom dictates that I do not.
there are certain principles by which I live, and I am not suddenly going to change now. Fairness and respect are two of those principles. As the good book says: "as you would that men would do to you, do also unto them"- Luke 6:31

I do not see other designers here on this forum having a public discussion about the work that I do, so I think I owe it to them from a perspective of fairness and respect not to do the same. I understand that I am for better or worse, a rarity among most designers discussed here, even if they were originally members of the forum, they somehow step away as their brands begin to develop. I have not. Many of these people are people whom I work with, they helped me and I have helped them in many ways, some of them have become very good friends.
I met a very respected designer in Paris on Thursday, we chatted for a good bit, and I loved his collection, I told him so.
I also told him that two seasons ago his collection sucked, he was strong enough to laugh about it as I explained the reasons I thought so. Would I say this publicly? No, I wouldn't because I am smarter than that.
While telling him face to face in a honest private conversation, he can easily understand my true motives, that I genuinely liked his work and is giving him an honest perspective of it.
To say this publicly about a designer whom I am selling in the same stores with, can easily come off in a very wrong way an in very poor taste.
My original statements were more a critique of the approach taken by many forum members, senior ones too, who are knowledgeable enough to give a fair critique to not just items from brands, but how people wear these items. If something fits badly, be honest enough to say so, regardless if the designer is a favorite of yours, if something is poorly made, say so regardless of who made it, as it can only help the wearer and the designer providing they are reading here..............and believe me, a lot of the designers (or at least their assistants) do.
All designers if you have the opportunity of speaking to them, will tell you that there are items they have designed, which seemed great at the time, which upon review they asked themselves "what was I thinking!"............
Sometimes we wish we could take things back, but once you let it out to the public, its there and there is no going back. if these items suck its fine to say so..............StyleZeitgeist for me has always been a place for honest critical discourse, and the root of my statements is that more and more I am seeing less of that, and its coming from people who have all the knowledge to not fall into that trap. Hopefully we can get back to being such a place again, rather than a place of unfettered hero worship

[MetroBulotDodo]

Eat my Junya: his women's collection is not going to be irrelevant anytime soon.

Genius pattern-making, brain melt-technical technical skills, understanding of fabric and the physics of its behavior over time and draped over different spaces<- there is nothing trendy in that.

Honestly, there are only a few giants amongst the men/women: Ann, (older) Margiela, early -2004 Chalayan, Junya, 95-2004 Helmut, Rei, Yohji. Sometimes I see and feel more sincerity from designers than I see genuine, lasting success. So very little is what I would consider World Historical-level innovation.

Quite soon, we'll see Carol's dead end stuff hang up like batiks blankets on a freshman dorm room wall (granted a rich freshman) - that as art the walls of the nouveau riche (to match the dead end couch?); however for me, that's not innovation in design. That's novelty (which yes, I own and enjoy, as well.) Is much of the current mode smoke and mirrors? Of course it is. It is up to you to differentiate. Enjoy it. We inevitably think about these questions, but don't over think it.

Raymond Williams was never more right when he pointed out that every generation has a very specific, bourgeois way in the way that they challenge the normative. Is it possible to push the boundaries beyond, or is it inherently impossible? I still wonder about this.

Junya Watanabe SS 2009




Travestere, Rome

Junya woven then knitted linen top/skirt
Margiela Ombre "Faun" Tabis

see it clearly here.
MBD

p.s. fucking great fabrics and looks from Individual Sentiments for SS 2013...I continue to see much promise.

[Faust]

It's always a delicate balance to remain independent, for one reason the vanguard always came from the properly fed.
When I first came here it was basically a place where a varied array of designers were discussed but from a different point of view, a lot more thorough than in other places and divorced from consumerism.
Somewhere in the road, SZ got extremely focused on certain niche, and i guess it was good to be specialized and we are now witnessing the outcome which could be considered very successful.
Back in the day I could see a lot of failure in SZ, and nowadays everything looks pretty "flawless". Take waywt as an example. Was it a masterplan to make the world better looking?

My take is not very relevant anyways, everyone here knows that I only pray in one church. Although things like rei's recent 2D collection make me extremely happy. Where does that collection fits? Rei doesn't want to fit anywhere, that's why she'll be always relevant, she doesn't need us.

Maybe it's a good thing then that this niche is hitting a dead end (something I felt strongly last season, less so this season) and maybe we can start talking about other things. I never envisioned SZ as this niche forum, because my own fashion interests go far beyond it (also one of the reasons for the print magazine). Nor did I envision SZ as a menswear forum.

However, you (and others) are not quite right in assessing the forum as a platform to discuss a handful designers who make black clothes. At least that's not the compliments I get when I meet people familiar with the forum. It's most gratifying when people say that this is the one place where one can carry on an intelligent conversation about fashion and style.