What are you wearing today?

[rickandjulius]

This is probably addressed more to daou, but I think he has missed a crucial point. In addition to fit pctures, people like Chinorlz added to the forum a significant element of its spirit. In his specific case, the exploration and technical understanding of the forum's collective points of interest. By the time I started reading sz around 2011, that appeared on its way out. Later generations of posters sought less of that and their exchanges here were less engaging. Finally, with people with rick&julius and daou inexplicably becoming senior members, its like that reddit GN guide graduating out of the children's pool. But what do I know, I was losing sleep over raw denim back then.

For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure you get the "senior member" thing just from post count. I wouldn't consider myself a senior member. Haha

[daou0782]

Daou, before you go knocking Albert, who has been one of the most indispensable members of SZ, I DARE you post one of your fits from a year ago. Yeah, I was shown some.

Guy, no need to make it personal.

I have great respect for Albert. I've purchased things from him, and our communication has been always very cordial and respectful. His fit just happened to be one of the very earliest on this thread that is still viewable.

To make a point on the Golden Age Fallacy, I chose an early fit in the thread. It just so happened that Chinorlz is the first poster whose fit pic is still up, though it might as well could have been users nambla or xcoldricex. I chose his fit because unlike nambla or xcoldricex, his displays the work of designers still talked about today. Further, when posting the fit in question, I made no comments neither on the identity of the poster nor on my opinion about his fit. In no way was it my intention to call any specific user personally.

I think bringing up the Golden Age fallacy is relevant to point how trite complaining about the current state of affairs vis-a-vis the past is. If anything, there should be a lamentations thread for lamentations. It's easy to lament and enter the circle jerk. It's harder to contribute by posting good fits in this thread. Moreover, resorting to complaints of this sort is a passive aggressive way of being unwelcoming to change.

Regarding the fact that some of my old fits were shown to you, I just find it flattering given my general irrelevance. I'm not shy of making mistakes in public, and nowhere have I ever claimed being certain about my taste nor my fits. Since I am aware everyone goes through a learning process, I am as empathetic to beginners as I am respectful of my seniors. So there's no need to "dare" me to do anything.

I briefly considered sending this note privately so as not to clutter the thread with personal issues, but I think it's important to clarify my position to avoid any general negativity from growing against my person.

Finally, if I offended chinorlz by posting his fit, I offer a public and heart felt apology.

Should there be any more messages related to this issue, I will respond to them privately if necessary.

Warm regards,
Daniel.

[guardimp]

You keep referring to it as a fallacy, which is great and all, but have not shown that it applies in this case. It has not increased in difficulty to post a picture to an online message board in the past 4-5 years. If anything cameras have increased in quality and the clothing has expanded in scope. But we are left with the problem of poor outfits and pictures posted in WAYWT.

I disagree with your hypothesis that there is no difference between the past and the current WAYWT quality. Perhaps it is the overall quality of posters on the forum that has changed, it seems as though the only places that posting has not dropped off is here and Men's Classifieds. It seems like the easy way out is to ignore the fact that newer members hail from reddit and 4chan, lacking either the desire or the aptitude to discuss the clothing.

Alternatively we could be talking about two different time periods. Back in 08-10 the outlook was quite different: RO was putting out some of the best stuff he has done; CCP was still putting out stuff; BBS cost an arm and a leg less then what it is now; julius was still raw and amazing. Maybe this is all a reflection of goth-ninja hitting the mainstream, yet I really object to the idea that things have not gotten worse.

[GucciAmen]

Alternatively we could be talking about two different time periods. Back in 08-10 the outlook was quite different: RO was putting out some of the best stuff he has done; CCP was still putting out stuff; BBS cost an arm and a leg less then what it is now; julius was still raw and amazing. Maybe this is all a reflection of goth-ninja hitting the mainstream, yet I really object to the idea that things have not gotten worse.

If I am not mistaken, you are affirming Daou's "hypothesis" here, as you are merely claiming that the current state of SZ are brands are languishing in comparison to their former selves (without stating any positives). The way I see it (and hopefully a few others), BBS quality is getting better each season, Julius still makes great pieces imo; just look at prism, Horikawa released a bunch of pants that look great (my pair are one of my favourite pieces from him thus far), CCP--er... yah disappointing but, designers come and go. Look at Taichi Murakami, he's a fairly new face and is creating some great pieces right now. Of course these opinions are subjective-to a degree-but I think it is a little base to just cast everything off that is in the present and relish the past.

[guardimp]

Although in the present the designers mention are doing great it fails to show up here. For every post of dji rocking out in julius, shucks in rick, or shuit just killing it, we have a new member asking about geobaskets or posting up uninspired rick. Going back 1000 pages does not provide the same issues that currently plague the forum. I believe that his link provides a great explanation of what I am failing to say:

"It is important to note a distinction between this fallacy and legitimate comparisons: not every positive appraisal of the past is wrongheaded, because the world really has changed. It's just that it's also always been complex and uneven, and no period or people have ever had a monopoly on virtue."

[Faust]

blah, blah, blah...

What's that? I can't hear you, your stripes are too loud.

[Faust]

UPDATED RULES - read and be forewarned. WAYWT now requires 100 posts.

http://stylezeitgeist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16417

2. ELSEWHERE - STYLEZEITGEIST IS A FORUM FOR DISCUSSING FASHION AND CULTURE, FIRST AND FOREMOST. "CLASSIFIEDS" AND "WHAT ARE YOU WEARING TODAY" SECTIONS ARE CONSIDERED AN ADDED PRIVILEGE, REQUIRING 100 POSTS. THE POST COUNT REQUIREMENT IS THERE TO ENSURE THAT MEMBERS ARE WILLING TO SPEND TIME AND EFFORT TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE FORUM INSTEAD OF MERELY USING IT TO THEIR ADVANTAGE.

MEMBERS THAT SOLELY USE THE FORUM FOR CLASSIFIEDS AND THE "WHAT ARE YOU WEARING TODAY" THREAD CAN AND WILL BE BANNED.

[TheThief]

Daou:

The golden-age fallacy argument is cute, as is the use of old member photos to prove that point. The problem with this line of argument as it relates to StyleZeitgeist is that back in the day this forum was a place for experimentation, development and discussion. Many of those old photos you linked to were people figuring out what would later become "goth-ninja" and were setting the ground for other people to co-opt the style and make it a trend. Were there plenty of bad fits? Yes. However, the overall quality of fits was better and there was a shorter history of source material to work from.

One thing is for sure, a few years ago this was a place that was intolerant to those who were considered to be inauthentic.

In short, I wouldnt be so quick on the trigger to clown the guys who figured out a style that you would eventually wear. I doubt many of you would have come to dress the way you do or even know about any of the designers you currently call your favorites without those members and their shitty fits.

Thief out.

[Chinorlz]

Daou:

The golden-age fallacy argument is cute, as is the use of old member photos to prove that point. The problem with this line of argument as it relates to StyleZeitgeist is that back in the day this forum was a place for experimentation, development and discussion. Many of those old photos you linked to were people figuring out what would later become "goth-ninja" and were setting the ground for other people to co-opt the style and make it a trend. Were there plenty of bad fits? Yes. However, the overall quality of fits was better and there was a shorter history of source material to work from.

One thing is for sure, a few years ago this was a place that was intolerant to those who were considered to be inauthentic.

In short, I wouldnt be so quick on the trigger to clown the guys who figured out a style that you would eventually wear. I doubt many of you would have come to dress the way you do or even know about any of the designers you currently call your favorites without those members and their shitty fits.

Thief out.

Nice post mate!

Took some time to catch up with the discussion. Seeing that old photo of me made me smile. I certainly didn't take offense! They can't all be hits.
Early on in SZ there were some growing pains/transition pains that I know a number of people on the forum experienced.

As change is something that doesn't happen naturally overnight, capturing the process of exploration and posting it up was fun and exciting. We all got hits and misses and have photos from years back that make us shake our heads.

It really is fascinating to me to see how SZ has become something really quite large and significant in even near-mainstream fashion. The previously-clearly-defined "look" in many ways evolved on this forum before becoming disseminated to the general public. With popularity comes those that have the means/interests to buy into it wholesale, those that are just now starting their exploration, and those that don't really take it too seriously and just mix and match (with good and bad outcomes).

I'm sure the curating of WAYWT and the site as a whole has become increasingly complex for Faust and the mods. Discussions over the years have continued to move towards consumerism rather than design concepts and approaches, but I think that isn't just because of new members and their where2kop postings, but because there are few designers that are really pushing the innovation envelope... at least in such a way as to elicit deep discussion (ie- beyond just fabric treatments). Those that are doing really great things (Deepti, LEB, Sruli, Altieri etc.) don't have much of an internet presence and many of the items aren't even seen/felt in person by most people on here, and that means they don't leave as much to discuss unfortunately.

A bit tangential to the current discussion, but I hope that people will continue to post in WAYWT.

[bukka]

What we can regret as well is the lack of older member posting WAYWT. Faust, Shucks and Shuit post on a regular basis.
But Lowrey, AKA*NYC, TheThief, Chinorlz, The Breaks, Docus, FMC (allright, you're not old but damn your fits were good), etc, please post more! There are guys like me who are simply not confident enough so I'd rather not bore people with bland outfits. But I know that the guys I just named wear sick fits on a daily basis. Share more!

[lowrey]

I'm busy cleaning up after my kids, AKA and Thief are busy running a store, Chinorlz is busy sipping wines and inventing crazy shit.

seriously though I'd post more, but a) I just don't have the time, with work, kids etc draining every second, b) I wear the same shit constantly because most of my wardrobe is held hostage by a toddler who naps and sleeps in our bedroom, and thus blocks me from entering the walk in closet behind it in the mornings and evenings

[Faust]

I'll make an effort to post more. Like I've said before I usually have to run out of the house in 10 min flat, which precludes a photo session.

[bukka]

I wear the same shit constantly because most of my wardrobe is held hostage by a toddler who naps and sleeps in our bedroom, and thus blocks me from entering the walk in closet behind it in the mornings and evenings

I know guys, it's completely understandable and I guessed those reasons. Just sharing the fact that I'm missing those WAYWT, and that makes a lot of members missing. I see a lot of sick fits on Instagram because I'm following members that stopped posting their fits here, but seriously, quality on my mobile phone is so shit that most of the times I'm just feeling frustrated.

Edit: I didn't include you in the people who stopped posting Faust, you've been posting quite regularly lately imo.

[Faust]

Ha, I have not thought of Instagram as a competitor to WAYWT. Makes sense - they really ran with the instant validation thing.

[bukka]

Ha, I have not thought of Instagram as a competitor to WAYWT. Makes sense - they really ran with the instant validation thing.

Half true. A lot of the sick fits are posted by fashion photographers. I've seen AKA in dozens of different instagram accounts.