What are you listening to?

[hamletpowpowpow]

in the mid 90's gravity were hands down the fucking coolest. it was a total secret handshake thing. represented a certain aesthetic and way of thinking. most definitely informed who i was then, and now. but yeah, for the most part, the kids into gravity were a rare and cool breed. take the diy self righteousness of the dc hardcore scene - but replace the overt political ideology with drug abuse, musical nihilism and a fondness for black hair dye, and that was pretty much the scene.

q: anthony is aces. i've known him for a looooong while. he's a talented fellow - one of the reasons i started playing bass - watching him and guy.
studying under alexander was probably the wiser choice - no one really tops him for men's tailoring.

and skecr8r - that record is the jam, but to be fair - if you weren't in to that stuff back in the day, i can't see getting into it now.

how is gravity recs in general? i actually happen to own that split hamlet wants, i just never listened to it. i can't remember why i picked it up, since i don't enjoy hardcore that much.

[ddohnggo]

i just checked the gravity site, first time in a while. they released a new the convocation record. two questions:

1) when did the convocation of... change their name?
2) why are they still a band?

[Dire]

Energy flow: Ryuichi Sakamoto.

[hamletpowpowpow]

1) a few years ago after they started playing out w/ a new bassist

2) i'll take the 5th on this.

i just checked the gravity site, first time in a while. they released a new the convocation record. two questions:

1) when did the convocation of... change their name?
2) why are they still a band?

[skecr8r_l8r]

in the mid 90's gravity were hands down the fucking coolest. it was a total secret handshake thing. represented a certain aesthetic and way of thinking. most definitely informed who i was then, and now. but yeah, for the most part, the kids into gravity were a rare and cool breed. take the diy self righteousness of the dc hardcore scene - but replace the overt political ideology with drug abuse, musical nihilism and a fondness for black hair dye, and that was pretty much the scene.

q: anthony is aces. i've known him for a looooong while. he's a talented fellow - one of the reasons i started playing bass - watching him and guy.
studying under alexander was probably the wiser choice - no one really tops him for men's tailoring.

and skecr8r - that record is the jam, but to be fair - if you weren't in to that stuff back in the day, i can't see getting into it now.

i was not even 9 when the record was released.

but what i actually meant was: i like all music, i just haven't had the time to get into hardcore yet. ill give it a spin today and see how it holds up, if i can find it.

thanks for the info, hamlet and merz. you guys are go-to guys if i ever need a list of 100+ seriously nihilist wax discs.

[destroyed]

my eternal gratitude to he who can get me the vicious ginks/fucking angels split on gravity. that thing slayed. just heard a track of the vicious ginks side which took me back.

c'mon geeks, i know one of y'all has this.

i spent a while trying dig this up for you (and me) to no avail.

i will add my own gravity request: second story window lp. bueller?

gravity is boss, i don't know how else to say it. formative experience sort of stuff & one of the few redeeming qualities to having been stranded in san diego for part the 90s. i'm beginning to think a better turntable is needed here for purposes of ripping stuff ;)

i had that vicious ginks/fucking angels 7"----it was my last gravity purchase before losing interest in that music

after purging 90% of my records (i had a ton from doing distro of gravity and ebullition [one for you, two for me]), i've only really kept my gravity jawns, heroin, mohinder, that second story window split 7", UOA/Born Against, antioch arrow...

i did the whole fanzine thing too, interviews with justin palafox (swing kids/struggle), bull from Policy of 3 and all that. highlights of my teenage life was getting reviews in heartattack, and like, meeting kids in collectives in other parts of the country that i knew from swaps------all this pre-internet social connectivity.

it was rare then to meet like minded folk, so it is really sort of strange, this situation right here, of being able to talk to other folk about it

[inaya]

[hamletpowpowpow]

i'm just kind of bemused by how many ex hardcore kids are on a web board discussing avant garde fashion. fashion was always a part of the scene, but still, i get a good chuckle out of it.

what distro did you work for, and what was yr zine?

but yeah, i had the same conversation the other night - about the connectivity of the hardcore scene - how pre-internet it was a real struggle to find like minded folk. that you met these people and listened to this music because you really wanted to - you had to seek stuff out. so you kind of had this intense bond brought out of a real genuine love for music and complete dissatisfaction for "how things were". times have definitely changed. things have changed so much - i think that's why all the other x-hxe kids are super nostalgic for yesteryear. it's really hard to identify with the 00's model of "punk".

skcr8r - i'm biased, so i don't know how well this stuff holds up. i'm really passionate about it, because it's where i come from - but i suspect if you weren't there, you'd probably feel similar to how i feel about the hardcore stuff from the 80s. Musically I dig it - i get why it was important to others - but it doesn't really mean anything to me. gravity/heart attack - that was the sound of my youthful rebellion.

i had that vicious ginks/fucking angels 7"----it was my last gravity purchase before losing interest in that music

after purging 90% of my records (i had a ton from doing distro of gravity and ebullition [one for you, two for me]), i've only really kept my gravity jawns, heroin, mohinder, that second story window split 7", UOA/Born Against, antioch arrow...

i did the whole fanzine thing too, interviews with justin palafox (swing kids/struggle), bull from Policy of 3 and all that. highlights of my teenage life was getting reviews in heartattack, and like, meeting kids in collectives in other parts of the country that i knew from swaps------all this pre-internet social connectivity.

it was rare then to meet like minded folk, so it is really sort of strange, this situation right here, of being able to talk to other folk about it

[malaesthetique]

i'm just kind of bemused by how many ex hardcore kids are on a web board discussing avant garde fashion. fashion was always a part of the scene, but still, i get a good chuckle out of it.

what distro did you work for, and what was yr zine?

but yeah, i had the same conversation the other night - about the connectivity of the hardcore scene - how pre-internet it was a real struggle to find like minded folk. that you met these people and listened to this music because you really wanted to - you had to seek stuff out. so you kind of had this intense bond brought out of a real genuine love for music and complete dissatisfaction for "how things were". times have definitely changed. things have changed so much - i think that's why all the other x-hxe kids are super nostalgic for yesteryear. it's really hard to identify with the 00's model of "punk".

skcr8r - i'm biased, so i don't know how well this stuff holds up. i'm really passionate about it, because it's where i come from - but i suspect if you weren't there, you'd probably feel similar to how i feel about the hardcore stuff from the 80s. Musically I dig it - i get why it was important to others - but it doesn't really mean anything to me. gravity/heart attack - that was the sound of my youthful rebellion.

I've thought about this a lot as well but instead of finding it to be a kind of humorous betrayal (as some do) I instead feel as if its a perfectly logical evolution from punk/hc to avant-garde high fashion. The elitist element in both subcultures is obvious, but there is something else to it--something involving the tacit knowledge of the differential function that gives rare beauty and art its value, and its inherent resistance to mass-cultural integration. This shift seems to be completely different from that of the punks who abandoned the path to seek reprieve in some remote historicized music movement of the past (i.e. jazz, classical) because the fashion game is still "happening" and is immune to the "threat" posed by internet technologies. The beauty of a Poell piece does not expire and is not something one can know vicariously, regardless of how many photos are seen or articles are read. Avant garde fashion requires direct interaction of subject and object to the point in which it the boundary is indistinct, similar to the experience of attending and becoming a part of a band's live performance vs listening to the same singular expression of a recorded segment of music in isolation... qualitatively its just not the same.

With the fashion subculture I see the same intense bond and a similar expression of dissatisfaction with the way things are as exhibited by 90's underground hc, but unlike recorded music it seems unlikely that these styles will ever become normalized due to the difficult nature of the medium, the unrealistic silhouettes required, and also the economic constraints limiting its mass distribution. Avant-Garde fashion is as extreme and also much better than music at retaining its exclusivisity, and I'm sure that most ex-HC fans find this aspect appealing despite the high price. I for one used to spend all my money on albums when I was young, but now I get my music for free (mostly) my disposable income goes to clothing or to partying.

[hamletpowpowpow]

one of you old timers can deal with that...

[malaesthetique]

one of you old timers can deal with that...

it seems that this community may be like the old HC scene in more ways than previously imagined... forgot that one has to "pay dues" before attempting to start a serious discussion :P

please, why don't you deal with this.

[malaesthetique]

heh, i'm not sure i'd agree with the above, but there is undeniably a kind of unspoken shared sentiment and sense of an aesthetic that is difficult to pin down, you know its there though.. through the sound, imagery, perception of self etc..

(i have no energy to write a proper response..)

I don't disagree and your comment is more proper than the previous guy so thanks, but there's got to be more to it than just that. After all, the name "Style Zeitgeist" implies a lot more, that somehow this community is more righteous and advanced. Personally I don't feel that this truth needs explication, and any attempt to do so would be futile I think since it is something that can only be experientially validated. My main point was that the relationship is isomorphic with that of the gravity records/three one g scene vis-a-vis rest of the stale punk/indie rock community of that time, so naturally a background in that kind of music is a perfect primer for understanding the avant-garde/high-fashion dialectic. Am i wrong, or is it just terribly obvious?

To not get completely off track:

Testicular Manslaughter

[hamletpowpowpow]

<sigh>
fine, you wanna call me out? really? i never go for this, but sure, i'm having a *really* bad day, so why not.

it's just that there seems to be an isomorphic relationship between your head and your ass as illustrated vis-a-vis yr previous postings.

yeah. elitism was part of the scene, and that sucked. those were the insecure poseurs looking for a false sense of superiority through listening to a form of music few were aware of. towards the end of things, the whole scene was clogged up with assholes like that. it's what killed the scene - compare 99 to 91.

what it boils down to - what ties everything together was a sense of rebellion, a common camaraderie of being an outsider. standing out from the crowd...not because you wanted to feel superior, but because you had a different way of viewing the world.

i'm sorry that you came to fashion and music looking to feel more "righteous and advanced", but to each his own.

what really gets my goat is you stealing music and then spending that money on really expensive clothing and booze.
as a former musician and a currently starving artist, that just irks the fuck out of me. that's not something anyone who was really involved in the diy scene would ever proudly proclaim. grow the fuck up.

and i'm done, no more from me.


np: young ginns discography. fuck were they amazing. unwound + nation of ulysses + flagrant black flag worship =
snotty teenage rebellion done right. did they ever tour?

I don't disagree and your comment is more proper than the previous guy so thanks, but there's got to be more to it than just that. After all, the name "Style Zeitgeist" implies a lot more, that somehow this community is more righteous and advanced. Personally I don't feel that this truth needs explication, and any attempt to do so would be futile I think since it is something that can only be experientially validated. My main point was that the relationship is isomorphic with that of the gravity records/three one g scene vis-a-vis rest of the stale punk/indie rock community of that time, so naturally a background in that kind of music is a perfect primer for understanding the avant-garde/high-fashion dialectic. Am i wrong, or is it just terribly obvious?

To not get completely off track:

Testicular Manslaughter

[ddohnggo]

young ginns was dope. talking about outsider, azn dude @ diy punk shows.

[snafu]

Pavement - Major Leagues

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13DfvdeH-io