Carol Christian Poell

[cjbreed]

cjbreed, dude, it's all about next level badassery....

haha hey i think i coined that term...

but yeah i get it. that whole post was like an internal dialogue where i finally came around to the point of it all. there is no benefit to the fabric but the design component is interesting. its another ccp exploration. and there really is no other designer, including altieri, with a greater focus on exploring the principle of a design. the philosophy of a design. challenging himself with rigid design elements and limitations and creating an entire collection along those lines. dead end. disjointed. self same. and so on...

[Aleks]

there is a benefit, you don't have to finish the edges (serge them, bind them etc.)

[andrew]

I dont know enough about Carol's work to comment for sure but from the image on the previous page the only bits that seam to be selvedge are the top edge and the pocket flap edges, so it shouldnt fit too badly on fabric (though i dont know if for example there is selfedge on the sleeve seam, though the sleeve width would mean it was only on one side which would be kind of pointless)

Again this only applies to the flat denim jacket on the previous page but it would be very easy to grade, and to sew (i wouldn't have thought it would take longer to sew than a regular denim jacket., and it isnt made from one piece, theres alot of components that you can see from the photo (waist band, neck belt belt loops, area the loops are mounted on, pocket bags flaps and internal pocket bags, etc etc plus of course, the sleeves are cut seperately)

re the cost; in my mind E5000 means roughly E1800 wholesale (not allowing for taxes assuming it stays in the EU) and even if all the pieces are next to each other along the selvedge and the manufacturing cost for a one off denim jacket was really high i don't see how it would get near that figure.

also you would need twice the fabric for jeans, not 4 times as there is a selvedge on both sides of the fabric but thats just nit picking, the point is you can normally fit parts on both sides and no doubt use the middle part of the fabric for other styles / details.

[cjbreed]

there is a benefit, you don't have to finish the edges (serge them, bind them etc.)

whats the benefit there? cost savings (not passed to the consumer)? greater durability? finished hems seem to work fine. besides 95% of my clothes have 70% raw edges. 87% of all people know that...

[AKA*NYC]

/\ lolz. thanks for the info lowrey and all. can't wait to check out these selvedge pieces in person!

[philip nod]

I like a lot of the self edge work but wish it didn't have selvedge because of its price jack. artistically merited of course. ccp is pushing fashion into art but this is one instance where the resistance level is strong for me

[Ivans On High]

I also find that the selfedge pieces are more 'showy' than the others. I think I would appreciate the pieces more if they retained the same classic exterior and had the intricate work internalised to an extent.

The coat I tried at EM was incredible, but had selvedge on the external pockets and also around the collar.

I am sure there is a reason (philosophical or otherwise) to the blatent display of selvedge, but I just don't get it.

[philip nod]

the reason is conceptual

[AENAON]

and aesthetics... I mean the visual impact you have when you look to a garment's lining that has been constructed this way...

It reflects also in a strange way David Cronenberg's
quest in Dead Ringers (1998) for inner, visceral beauty... which is only sometimes from Carol Christina 'reversed' (on external pockets, collar).

[lowrey]

I dont know enough about Carol's work to comment for sure but from the image on the previous page the only bits that seam to be selvedge are the top edge and the pocket flap edges, so it shouldnt fit too badly on fabric (though i dont know if for example there is selfedge on the sleeve seam, though the sleeve width would mean it was only on one side which would be kind of pointless)

Again this only applies to the flat denim jacket on the previous page but it would be very easy to grade, and to sew (i wouldn't have thought it would take longer to sew than a regular denim jacket., and it isnt made from one piece, theres alot of components that you can see from the photo (waist band, neck belt belt loops, area the loops are mounted on, pocket bags flaps and internal pocket bags, etc etc plus of course, the sleeves are cut seperately)

I don't remember the amount of selvedge in this exact jacket, but there was a similar non-denim one that had selvedge going around the collar, down the sleeves, on pocket flaps etc. I recall seeing selvedge in belt loops, so that the selvedge part is actually on the underside. this is obviously totally uneccesary but shows how this whole concept is sort of an obsession towards using the edge of the material. its a pretty strange concept and personally I don't fully understand the point. Then again I'm not sure if anyone aside from Carol himself does.

What goes for pricing, I don't know the cost for this particular jacket but the selvedge pieces were for the most part notably pricier than the "regular" garments, so I assume it has to do with the more expensive material, less effective use of it and the amount of labour involved. I'm pretty sure some of the fabrics are made for him and customized, which probably brings up the cost. Actually now that I think of it, there was a jacket similar to the denim one where both the collar and hemline were selvedge, so the fabric was very narrow and presumably custom made? Maybe a fabrics fabrics expert can chime in on this.

Anyway, I haven't seen much of these pieces in stores and I doubt we will because of their cost. CCP knew this and I suppose thats why it was almost like a show collection within a collection.

[MWNN]

We should wait for Zam for more clear answer.
But as I thought this jacket only looks simple . But the price anyway is very high. You paying for art and sometimes its really painful to wear this items. I Have many ccp items and some of them only wears 1 time cause you should be very careful with them.

Anyway I think this square jacket is nice and fits perfect.

[Enaml]

some of them only wears 1 time cause you should be very careful with them.

Something about this statement makes me a little sad. I hope this is not the case with most wearers of Carol's work.

[AENAON]

agree, everyone should enjoy his/her CCP pieces in an every-day basis. Otherwise the whole idea of collecting pieces start to smell death I am afraid..

[Patroklus]

Actually now that I think of it, there was a jacket similar to the denim one where both the collar and hemline were selvedge, so the fabric was very narrow and presumably custom made? Maybe a fabrics fabrics expert can chime in on this.

I'm not familiar with the piece you're talking about, but selvedge itself doesn't really tell you much as most bolts of fabric have it. I could run down to Jo-ann's, buy some junk at $2 a yard and make you a jacket with a selvedge collar and hemline just by cutting those pieces off the selvedge.

I don't think there's as many selvedge boners here as on other fashion forums, but selvedge can be spun on nearly any loom and can be found on most bolts of fabric. Aside from repro denim and conceptual garments like CCP it's a bad idea to use the selvedge in garment construction; it'll make the garment twist and do other weird things.

[zamb]

will toch on this topic in a few...........................