Rick Owens

[Larry]

this makes no sense whatsoever

It does abit though, because you are all complaining about the use of denim in s/s 10. Is denim really that interesting a fabric or is it just the business side of things moving in.

[mrbeuys]

Someone PM me when this is over please.

[Servo2000]

YOU KNOW NOTHING OF THE CRUNCH

[hobo]

Wow...
I have one day away from the site and look what happens!
First of all;
Come on guys, don’t get angry with our young friend here. I thought that the point of forums was debate. Just because the debate takes a turn that wasn’t planned doesn’t make it any less valid and I believe that it is relevant to the design of Rick Owens in particular, so I think that this debate does belong on this thread.

Secondly;
Resorting to personal insults because the disagreement is frustrating, is beneath all of you guys... Really though!
It is exactly this kind of debate that makes art of any kind interesting and keeps things moving forward.

And last of all if anyone’s still reading, this is my opinion;
Larry, first of all, well done for rocking the boat man. Great entrance, keep it up. Debate should never be comfortable or it’s not debate, it’s just a conversation! Maybe try to refrain from insulting the people that you’re debating with. That’s not cool man. We’re all nerds in one way or another. Me personally, I’m covered in tattoos! Last time I went to Paris buying, I rode a big ass fucking motorbike all the way from Yorkshire, and back again. I’ve lived on the streets of South Beach, Miami and I used to be in a band. I once partied for 5 days and nights without any food or sleep (or none alcoholic liquid for that matter!). I was finally put to bed in disgrace, by my girlfriend, for trying to fight over a hundred people including several club security! Oh yes, and I’ve also done pretty much every narcotic known to man.

I’m not telling you all this to impress you. I’m not proud of it. It just is who I was, and what made me who I am. I am telling you because I think that, most people would say that I do qualify as “the real thing” but I’m still a nerd. I still love discussing the aesthetics of Velcro and metal fastenings. It’s what floats my boat, and always has been. I also love the aesthetics of motorcycles and music and I’m a nerd about those too.
Anyway, I digress...
I understand where you’re coming from and you do make some valid points that I have thought about myself, but like most idealistic, young people you haven’t thought them out to their ultimate ends. For example, you presume that the people who are wearing Rick are trying to look like the people that Rick has taken his inspiration from. You also assume that because you see these people as edgy, that they must see themselves as edgy, or that they are trying to be edgy. These are pretty big assumptions and ‘assumption is the mother of all fuckups’. I wear Rick and Carpe Diem and m.a+. I carry a 20 year old Chrome Hearts bag and wear a 20 year old Chrome Hearts wallet. Am I ‘edgy’, am I trying to be ‘edgy’, or is this just who I am, my aesthetic. You don’t know, so it is a mistake to assume that you do. To be honest I don’t even know, maybe the truth is a little of all three! We all dress up. We all put on our armour before we walk out the door, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that we’re trying to be someone else. Your punk friends who live in squats do exactly the same thing, just because they don’t have the money to buy Rick doesn’t make their motives any different, and the same goes for the hippies. We all have different aesthetics but our motives are the same, it’s human nature.., instinct. We are all nailing our colours to the mast. We are saying, “this is who I am and this is the group that I belong to”. Doesn’t matter whether it’s an Armani suit, a Rick leather or a pair of homemade tie-dye pants... same motives! Instinctive, tribal, human nature. The mistake that all of us make at some point is to assume that our tribe is better than the others, that we understand more than the others, but this is another assumption with no real foundation. If we’ve never been a part of another tribe, it would be a mistake to assume that we know how they think. Sometimes things are a lot deeper than they seem to be.
To take you up on another point; this thing that you have about purity and originality, and arts destruction through commerciality. Your argument really is grossly flawed, as you haven’t thought it through to its ultimate conclusion. You see the capitalistic motives which drive the commercialisation of most art forms, are conversely the exact reasons that we are all in a position to see and discuss said art forms. Wow, so capitalism feeds socialism! That can’t be right! Well, how about this for an example; Rick Owens would not put such time and effort into his design if there was no financial reward. People may disagree or not like the fact, but it remains a fact. If you take away the financial stimulus, 99.99% of artists of any description would produce less. I didn’t say stop producing; I simply said produce less... fact. Now let’s look at the media. Obviously, without the good journalists, some of whom contribute here, the vast majority of us would simple not know about these artists. Do you think that the journalist would produce less if there was no financial reward? What about the media outlets, TV, magazines, newspapers, websites? How about the stores, like mine, which welcome you to come and look around and try things on, even if you don’t want to, or can’t afford to purchase. Do you think that we would be here if there was no financial reward? Now, if all of these people did not do what they do, none of us would even have heard of Rick, of Versace, or Jackson Pollock, or the Sex Pistols, or Bob Dylan, or Mozart and the world would be a much, much poorer place. So I suppose that my point is, the system may be flawed, but until someone comes up with a new one (and many have tried, Karl Marx, Vladimir Lenin, Mao Tse Tung and Fidel Castro, to name just four), it’s the best we’ve got. I would also argue that whatever your politics you would have to agree that, all forms of art suffered greatly under the regimes that resulted from these men’s ideology.
Finally, following on from my last point, I would say that like most idealistic young people, you have given no thought to the socio-economic implications of your argument. The clothing industry keeps hundreds of millions of people, all over the world, in jobs. It keeps roofs over our heads and puts food on our tables, so by arguing for its de-commercialisation, you are arguing to destroy an industry and put millions of people out of work.
I went to stay with my friend, Geoffrey B. Small, near Venice, this summer and he kindly took me on a tour of the surrounding area. I did not know this but at one time that area was the heart of Italian denim production. Almost every family’s income was directly connected to that industry. Over the last ten years, the production has disappeared, either moved up a level and taken to Japan or down a level and taken to China, but now there is high unemployment and as a result, unless something is done by the Italian government the communities will begin to fall apart and the culture will be lost. This is not a guess. It will happen, I saw my own community destroyed in the same way after the coal mine closures in the 1980’s and early 90’s. Now, I’m not saying that this is as a result of the de-commercialisation of an industry, but it is an example of the same result. The major difference being that in this example the production has moved elsewhere, not ceased altogether.

Incidentally, I don’t know if you know of my friend Geoffrey but he is a good example of the kind of thing that we are discussing. He is an amazing designer whose creations capture the history of clothing in modern wearable garments, which are beautifully made and finished. He produces everything in house (himself and 3 other people work on every garment). No factory production (Not even Maurizio Amadei or the great Maurizio Altieri can say that)! He is not interested in producing any more than he already does. He has no marketing and PR people. It is wonderful! But there is a down side. Although he has been working since the 80s and has had more Paris catwalk shows than any other American Designer, not many people have even heard of him. This is a great loss to the world! I would also have to say that, great as his cloths are, they don’t keep as many people in gainful employment as Rick’s. It appears though, that we do have the best of all worlds; Rick and Geoffrey!

[zamb]

a really great and articulate post Hobo,
and i'm glad someone like you have taken the time to explain this thing the way you have. I have often gotten questions as to why designer clothing have to be so expensive, and while I do agree that some things are indeed overpriced, I often try to explain that there is a reason why things cost the price they do...............
to the point where I even disect the cost of the cheaper garments to show individuals that they themselves would not want to work for the salary that the people in China and India etc, are paid to make the clothing sold at Gap, Walmart etc................

Larrys point about spending triple figures on clothing while people are dying of hunger was addressed by Jesus Christ.
there was a woman who anointed his feet with expensive perfume a few days before he was crucified, Judas iscariot saw it and said "why was not this ointment sold and the money given to the poor!"
Jesus Replied, 'leave her alone, the poor you have with you always"

the reality is there will always be rich people and poor people, addressing the problem of feeding the poor does not have to come at the expense of buying a good quality (expensive?) garment.............I buy expensive clothing and i give alot to helping the poor and needy, the two dont have to conflict with each other.................

[lowrey]

I can vouch for this mans authentic edginess and approve of this abasement.

[Faust]

Hobo, I wonder how you sound when you are not drunk! Amazing post. See, I am no longer able to get past the "you have not thought this through to its ultimate conclusion." (Unless I'm in classroom, of course).

[curiouscharles]

[this feels off topic but i don't think that's my bad by any means]

does anyone know how much the wool/gauze panel pants run at RO NYC?

i'd email antino but i've bugged him so much recently, and would prefer emailing to say "i've got money for you!"

[martin]

New pictures up at http://gallery.me.com/rickowens

i really like the swing trousers.

[curiouscharles]

just noticed those myself. love their gallery.

[mrbeuys]

Ha, was just going to post the same... Loving that flannel oiled calf combo jacket. Does anyone know what the deal is with the Samurai Jersey? Can't figure it out. Or maybe that's all there is...
I love the fact that the 'relaxed boot' is now 'officially' called Elephant boot.

[theaddict]

Cool pics and the model is cool too...love the samurai top...ahh, i am so ninja addicted...

[hobo]

Hobo, I wonder how you sound when you are not drunk! Amazing post. See, I am no longer able to get past the "you have not thought this through to its ultimate conclusion." (Unless I'm in classroom, of course).

If you find out how I sond when I'm sober, let me know!

Ps. your teachers were clearly beter than mine!

[hobo]

New pictures up at http://gallery.me.com/rickowens

i really like the swing trousers.

Blistered Lambskin Rocks!!!

...hammered lambskin is pretty cool too.

I love leather... I mean really though.

EDIT: If I was a lady.., or the Fabulous Fred Fan, the shearling motorcycle jacket would be mine!

[Fuuma]

Which is why margiela covered the faces of the models. The man was a genius to be honest.

I don't think rick owens is on that level.

I don't either but that does not mean what he's proposing is devoid of value. For the record I like the baroque aspect of Rick Owens; furs, leathers, dramatic collars, architectural shapes. I also appreciate luxury and unashamedly enjoy draping myself into it. The leather jacket with fox fur I own from Rick is a perfect representation of this; dramatic, luxurious and in your face animals remains. I didn’t kill it myself or get the distressing through living in a dumpster but I’m not looking for that kind of authenticity; that’s not what I’m about anyway. I respect the design and understand that there has to be an economical structure to get it from Rick’s head to my dainty frame. I can still lament certain economic inequalities, structural injustices and kids dying from starvation.