The Comme des Garçons "Universe"

[gerry]

Re: The Comme des Garçons "Universe"



Another thought... How can CDG come up with something that can actually be approved by H&M?

1. The vast majority of these collaborative collections haven't actually been designed by the actual designer but rather by a team of designers interpreting the label's image.

2. Label's current train of thought...

3. The fact that there's no way that H&M would let a collection (hypothetically) produced in that much volume not sell.

Also... Kawabuko said, "There's value in bad taste, too. This is Comme des Garçons bad taste." Perhaps there's value in bad quality, too? Haha...

[Faust]

Re: The Comme des Garçons "Universe"

surely, if Rei does it, it's good. thanks for the quote, by the way, her campiness surely can't be denied now? btw, laika, again - i did not say "kitsch" in this thread.

[Serendipper]

Re: The Comme des Garçons "Universe"

[quote user="wire.artist"][quote user="gerry"]


3. The fact that there's no way that H&M would let a collection (hypothetically) produced in that much volume not sell.

[/quote]

H&M don't give a shit about if this does sell or not, the media is gonna be flooded with H&M name with no cost.

[/quote]

If that's the case, then they should just go all out and make H&M a guerilla store for 4 weeks. Ha.

[laika]

Re: The Comme des Garçons "Universe"



[quote user="Faust"] btw, laika, again - i did not say "kitsch" in this thread.
[/quote]

ok, Faust. You've said this twice now, so you must think it proves an important point. Can you elaborate please?

And am I supposed to take this as a "response" to my last post? Which, btw, did not include the word, "kitsch" either, if that makes a difference to you? [^o)]

[laika]

Re: The Comme des Garçons "Universe"



[quote user="wire.artist"]You see...THAT's a radical idea. they should just sell all the old stock at H&M pricing
[/quote]

[74]

Agree, it's brilliant...much better than sending it up in a bonfire, for sure!

[Faust]

Re: The Comme des Garçons "Universe"

[quote user="laika"]

[quote user="Faust"] btw, laika, again - i did not say "kitsch" in this thread.
[/quote]

ok, Faust. You've said this twice now, so you must think it proves an important point. Can you elaborate please?

And am I supposed to take this as a "response" to my last post? Which, btw, did not include the word, "kitsch" either, if that makes a difference to you? [^o)]

[/quote]

well, camp is ironic in the way that it elevates bad taste, but that wasn't even the point - i wasn't lumping them together, i was enumerating. they are distinct features of Rei's creative output of the last couple of years. as far as the flag collection - she again put her statement in front of the designs and that's what people remember. they remember the "flag is a purest symbol" (a bit of a disturbing statement with a whiff of fascism, wouldn't you say?), and not the beautiful jackets of that collection. of course rei fanboys came rushing to her defense saying how ironic she is, how she of course did not mean to express japanese supremacy, etc. etc.

[laika]

Re: The Comme des Garçons "Universe"

[quote user="gerry"]


Also... Kawabuko said,"There's value in bad taste, too. This is Comme des Garçons bad taste." Perhaps there's value in bad quality, too? Haha...

[/quote]

It's an interesting idea, certainly. But I would guess that bad quality does not have the subversive potential of bad taste. We have objective standards for judging quality that are difficult to contest, whereas taste--unlike beauty--is purely subjective and open to interpretation. Alittle bad taste can be good taste, if you know what I mean.[75] Those Rick Owens sneakers are a good example of this....

[laika]

Re: The Comme des Garçons "Universe"



[quote user="Faust"][

well, camp is ironic in the way that it elevates bad taste, but that wasn't even the point - i wasn't lumping them together, i was enumerating. they are distinct features of Rei's creative output of the last couple of years. as far as the flag collection - she again put her statement in front of the designs and that's what people remember. they remember the "flag is a purest symbol" (a bit of a disturbing statement with a whiff of fascism, wouldn't you say?), and not the beautiful jackets of that collection. of course rei fanboys came rushing to her defense saying how ironic she is, how she of course did not mean to express japanese supremacy, etc. etc.[/quote]

What she said, is "To me, it [the flag] is the purest form of design in existence." There is a difference.

Be back later.....[79][66]

[Serendipper]

Re: The Comme des Garçons "Universe"

[quote user="laika"]


[quote user="Faust"][

...they remember the "flag is a purest symbol" (a bit of a disturbing statement with a whiff of fascism, wouldn't you say?), and not the beautiful jackets of that collection. of course rei fanboys came rushing to her defense saying how ironic she is, how she of course did not mean to express japanese supremacy, etc. etc.[/quote]

What she said, is "To me, it [the flag] is the purest form of design in existence." There is a difference.

[/quote]

She was not the first to say this. Unfortunately, the futurist, purist, and yes, fasict cultures behind some of the flags past flown in the 20th century are amongst the strongest and most enduring examples of design. But it would be a mistake to leave art and fashion out of the category of relevance to that which informs our collective identity as a 21st century society. A designer, in order to maintain integrity, should maintain some sort of standard. If there is no standard set by the artist, then how are we to judge it's value, as it's intended recipients?

There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.
- John Ruskin

[Faust]

Re: The Comme des Garçons "Universe"

/\ bam! pm sent, game over. i've been meaning to read ruskin for a while, i know he thinks along some of the same lines.

[Avantster]

Re: The Comme des Garçons "Universe"



I will grudgingly admit this collaboration actually does fit into the CdG universe [link]. It is just another one of those collaborations (Fred Perry, Speedo, Peggy Moffitt, or the Junya Levis, North Face). Rei has always had a commercial aspect to her business, a good example of this being her highly successful fragrances.

Don't get me wrong - I am all for designer integrity and keeping an uncompromising vision.

The real question for me is - what new is this collaboration going to bring for CdG, and consumers out there?

Bringing 'better design to the masses' sounds great in concept, but IMHO this is wishful thinking. Yes, this is a publicity coup that may result in interesting clothes, but will it really change anything? For your average H&M consumer, it will be just another collaboration to jump on, consume, digest and excrete. Once it is passed, they will simply wait for the next. Sure, it may get the CdG name out there. It might even get more people to appreciate Rei's work at CdG. But I think this collaboration will only continue to undermine the high standards that Rei once set so uncompromisingly.

The other aspect as Laika mentioned is production - how will the fabric and construction quality of H&M be reconciled with the execution that Rei's creations demand? My guess is, while I absolutely hope not, that there will be a good lot of printed tees (think PLAY).

[gerry]

Re: The Comme des Garçons "Universe"



A bit of perspective from Vogue UK?

The famously avant-garde Japanese label, spearheaded by design powerhouse Rei Kawakubo, will provide a range of both men's and womenswear, as well as childrenswear, accessories and a new unisex fragrance for the retailer. In honour of its Japanese roots, the collaborative line will launch exclusively at H&M in Tokyo in November before being rolled out worldwide a few days later.

"I have always been interested in the balance between creation and business," says Kawakubo of the collaboration. "It is a dilemma, although for me creation has always been the first priority. It is a fascinating challenge to work with H&M since it is a chance to take the dilemma to its extreme, and try to solve it."

"Rei Kawakubo has been on the top of our wish list for a long time (huh?) and we are thrilled that she has chosen to collaborate with us," adds H&M creative advisor Margareta van den Bosch. "We have tremendous respect for Kawakubo's fashion philosophy questioning fashion's ingrained patterns and we admire her artistic approach to design. We are particularly excited to launch the collection in Kawakubo?s native country at our launch in Japan."

[Johnny]

Re: The Comme des Garçons "Universe"

[quote user="Serendipper"]


I'm going with Faust and Zamb on this one.

Just imagine if Ann Demeleumeester/H&M were announced. All hell would shake loose, and for good reason.

R.K. should not get a pass on this one. I look forward to seeing how they think they can make it relevant, in terms of marketing.

The tried and true H&M shopper seems to be a 180 from a Comme diehard. It seems to be a business move that could alienate both potential customers. I just don't get it.

[/quote]

No one would give a shit apart from about 5 people on this board, which is hardly all hell shaking or indeedbreaking loose. (And asI alluded to in the section of this discussion before comparative positions were banned, in my view she already does something pretty similar, but just doesn't include the H&M label on.)

I don't think I or anyone else is saying she should get a pass - just that it may be interesting, it maynot be, but let's just see. I think that the last point you make is exactly why it may be interesting. I have never bought a single thing from H&M.

[Yan]

Re: The Comme des Garçons "Universe"



I think CDG diversified years ago with shirt, play etc. so whats the big deal with H&M? Its just a diffusion line of a diffusion line of a diffusion line. For me I bought my first piece of CDG in the eighties and bought nothing through the nineties and nothing until SS08 when I bought again.

CDG is not CCP etc. They are first and foremost a business that occasionally does something magical like Dover Street Market. If you buy fashion because of the lineage and the purity of intention you might as well walk around naked.

[laika]

Re: The Comme des Garçons "Universe"

[quote user="Johnny"]


No one would give a shit apart from about 5 people on this board, which is hardly all hell shaking or indeedbreaking loose. (And asI alluded to in the section of this discussion before comparative positions were banned, in my view she already does something pretty similar, but just doesn't include the H&M label on.)

I don't think I or anyone else is saying she should get a pass - just that it may be interesting, it maynot be, but let's just see. I think that the last point you make is exactly why it may be interesting. I have never bought a single thing from H&M.

[/quote]

If we are talking about designers compromising their integrity by lowering their standards, I think the comparison to Ann is very valid. At least with a collection for H&M, there is a certain transparency between price and value (from the buyer's point of view). The same cannot be said for compromising quality while maintaining/raising prices.

(And Faust, on the subject of comparisons: Rick Owens is campy as camp can be--he says it himself--and you don't seem to have any problem with him. And it's not just limited to camp with him either--he does all sorts of things that fall under the rubric of the post-modernity you claim to so despise. So your criticism of Rei on this basis seems entirely subjective and taste-based, if not simply unfounded.)

I also think the collaboration could be interesting, although I share avanster's fear about the printed tees. [79]But out of all the designers who have produced collections for H&M, Rei seems oddly the best suited. She's absolutely genius at fusing art and commerce, and in my view, has managed to maintain a kind of integrity even in her most commercial ventures. So I am keeping an open mind, even if I'm not overly hopeful...