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  • Faust
    kitsch killer
    • Sep 2006
    • 37849

    #16
    Re: NYT article on rising retail prices.

    [quote user="bakla"]

    The interesting thing is when we come to accept these price structures as a given, especially if they're consistent across the board, across countries. This is easy to tell nowadays when you can compare pricing globally via the internet.If the price of an item, no matter how high, is the same in the US and abroad, then I think I mentally go into a state where I just accept that as a given, and then it becomes a new benchmark (again, for example, in the case of shoes). I can subsequently decide whether or not to take the plunge and buy at that level. But the problem is I'd have reached a new threshold for pricing, which isn't necessarily good for my wallet. Nowadays, I look at $2000 coats when I never used to think of purchasing anything above $800, and I think, well, that's reasonable, when it shouldn't be, considering it's more than I pay for rent. But because it's the general price for all around, it's relatively reasonable, in that there's a reason it's priced that way. Everyone else is. At least, in the designer category. I wonder if the dollar should stabilize, will prices go down? I have never seen prices drop. It always just seems to climb.



    This is why I'm excited about someone like Robert Geller, and similarly, The Generic Man: they're in the contemporary category, but they're infusing it with the kind of energy and contemplative design that you usually see only in designer. It's more thoughtful, less commercial design than, say, Kenneth Cole or DKNY >shudder!< are giving you. While it's not as exclusive due to its pricepoint, it still offers value. Obviously you won't get finishes like CCP, but you can dress well and interestingly if you're an informed consumer and investigate the right brands and mix them in with your wardrobe. It makes one rethink paying designer prices.



    [/quote]



    I agree (about Geller). This is why I first loved Cloak - even though there were quality control issues on some pieces (btw, just looked at my FW04 dress shirt today, and it's going at one seem - frustrating), the prices WERE reasonable before FW06 (and SS07 was just absurd - worst value for money).



    Maybe not in fashion, but I have seen prices drop because of currency. When I was buying my bed at the all time low Euro/$ (2000), it was $100 less then a month before because of the exchange rate (the bed was being made in Milan). Now, that I look at furniture prices, I think how lucky I am that I bought all my furniture that year. Yea, it seemed on the expensive side then, but it's a goddamn bargain now.



    As far as looking at prices across the board, and feeling reasonable - I wonder if the word reasonable is proper? I feel helpless, and accepting sometimes, but I hardly find these prices reasonable. It's more of a feeling of giving up, because there isn't much you can do in terms of hunting. So, while I can accept these prices as a norm, it does not mean that I will buy into them.

    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

    StyleZeitgeist Magazine

    Comment

    • Faust
      kitsch killer
      • Sep 2006
      • 37849

      #17
      Re: NYT article on rising retail prices.

      BTW, Avantster, thanks for the article - sorry a bit late reading it. I completely agree with it. That's why economics cannot be a pure science, no matter how much higher math they throw at the poor MBA students to obfuscate that fact. Emotions are inevitable when it comes to pricing, and not the best emotions at that.
      Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

      StyleZeitgeist Magazine

      Comment

      • sbw4224
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2006
        • 571

        #18
        Re: NYT article on rising retail prices.



        When making purchases my studies in economics actually can become useful. For some reason, utils, or the unit of measurement in rating the satisfaction of the consumption of a good always comes to mind. ( ex. Yohji coat = 200 utils. $1,500 dollars sitting in a bank = 150 utils. Solution? Purchase the Yohji coat for greater satisfaction! [8-|] ). The fact that economists try and quantify satisfaction is really quite funny, but it can almost help a person make smart decisions when it comes to purchasing something.



        Of course I'm just making light of the situation as I'm sure a lot of big ticket purchases are more based on quick emotions from being in a store/pressure from society/SA's than calculated measurements. I'm sure we're in the minority here of the whole who purchase expensive clothing.

        Comment

        • Faust
          kitsch killer
          • Sep 2006
          • 37849

          #19
          Re: NYT article on rising retail prices.

          /\ No doubt. This is why stores usually buy one thing of each size (yes, of course, it's riskier to sell more than one thing at a high price, but it's mostly done to play on people's desire for exclusivity). Just look at the CCP leather buying frenzy at Lazarri.
          Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

          StyleZeitgeist Magazine

          Comment

          • bakla
            Senior Member
            • Oct 2006
            • 902

            #20
            Re: NYT article on rising retail prices.



            [quote user="Faust"]/\ No doubt. This is why stores usually buy one thing of each size (yes, of course, it's riskier to sell more than one thing at a high price, but it's mostly done to play on people's desire for exclusivity). Just look at the CCP leather buying frenzy at Lazarri.
            [/quote]



            I don't think they buy one size of each for exclusivity. It's more the risk you mentioned. A good store buyer will determine how many s/he can sell of an item at full price and maximized profits. It's just that many of the brands the SZ audience prefer suffer from the limitations of the market demand, both within the stores themselves and within the city/competing stores. A good sellthrough is one that leaves few sizes of any items left at sale time. If a brand constantly has many items left at markdown time, you know said brand will be stocked less heavily the next season, or at least more conservatively. It's still a business after all.

            Comment

            • Faust
              kitsch killer
              • Sep 2006
              • 37849

              #21
              Re: NYT article on rising retail prices.

              [quote user="bakla"]

              [quote user="Faust"]/\ No doubt. This is why stores usually buy one thing of each size (yes, of course, it's riskier to sell more than one thing at a high price, but it's mostly done to play on people's desire for exclusivity). Just look at the CCP leather buying frenzy at Lazarri.
              [/quote]



              I don't think they buy one size of each for exclusivity. It's more the risk you mentioned. A good store buyer will determine how many s/he can sell of an item at full price and maximized profits. It's just that many of the brands the SZ audience prefer suffer from the limitations of the market demand, both within the stores themselves and within the city/competing stores. A good sellthrough is one that leaves few sizes of any items left at sale time. If a brand constantly has many items left at markdown time, you know said brand will be stocked less heavily the next season, or at least more conservatively. It's still a business after all.



              [/quote]



              I am sure that's part of the reason, but I wouldn't discount the other part either. If you know that there is only one thing in your size available and you really want it, most probably you would make a purchasing decision quicker, for fear that it maybe gone. I've certainly been a victim :-)

              Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

              StyleZeitgeist Magazine

              Comment

              • kronik
                Member
                • May 2007
                • 43

                #22
                Do increasing prices affect your consumption?



                I haven't followed many of these brands for very long, but one thing I've discovered is that all of them have increased their prices from last season to this one. I do, however, follow other luxury brands as my girlfriend happens to be a complete shoe/handbag hound and Chanel, Hermes, Bottega Veneta, etc. have all performed their perfunctory bumps (and will continue to). That being said, being a newly potential customer, I find that my desire is somewhat lessened by the sneaking suspicion that I'm being fleeced. The fact of the matter is, I'll probably keep buying. I still want a jacket that I know has no earthly business costing six
                thousand dollars, or shoes that cost three thousand dollars. Purse obsessions don't just dissipate, unless they're replaced by something like.. jewelry obsessions (heaven forbid). This rationale can be applied to everything you buy - cars, houses, electronics, whatever. I was determined to buy a M3 as my next car but now with the incumbent price increase on the E92 .. it ain't gonna happen.



                Do you divert your disposable income elsewhere? Do you pine in the way you did when the item was 300 dollars less? Do you buy things in fear that they'll go up in 3 months and you'll continue to want it, even if it does? It seems that all of this consumerism further allows some of us (Americans, myself included) to be subjugated by banks and remorseless credit pimps. The banking lobby has succeeded in propagating mechanisms which assist in driving prices higher and higher, making living a credit-less existence ever more difficult. I know there have been multiple comments (and probably threads) regarding the price increases, but I suppose I never see people flat out say how said price increases ACTUALLY impact their decisions.

                Comment

                • kronik
                  Member
                  • May 2007
                  • 43

                  #23
                  Re: NYT article on rising retail prices.



                  Obsolete.

                  Comment

                  • Casius
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2006
                    • 4772

                    #24
                    Re: Do increasing prices affect your consumption?

                    Oh yea, they most definitely affect my spending or at least how I am going to spend. For instance, I had planned on picking up one of the CCP jointed shirts this season but after finding out they are $1000, I had to draw the line. Most of the time I just find the pieces I really, really want and give myself a limit on those pieces, if they exceed that, then I won't buy. I've also been into the whole quality over quantity thing, and so far I've been happy with all my purchases which I think ends up saving me money in the long run (no buying, selling, etc.).
                    I guess another example, not pertaining to clothing is a new car purchase. My lease comes up next year and I have been looking into different cars and figured I would try and see if I could swing an A5 when the hit, but after figuring it will cost upwards of $45K, It's just not worth it to me. If it were $40K after taxes and everything, that would be something else entirely.
                    But I guess you have to draw the line somewhere. :)
                    "because the young are whores. dealers come to carol to get the rock"

                    Comment

                    • mesh
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2006
                      • 976

                      #25
                      Re: Do increasing prices affect your consumption?



                      Fortunately my taste ends with raf, margiela, vb, bless etc so they are at a much more plausible (relative) price range. I did however have one splurge for myself which were insanely priced boots that to this day I second guess, not regret however. I do think to myself often times how I can't believe I spent that kind of money on a pair of shoes where I could have got 3 other pairs of shoes instead. When something is over a set price in my mind, though, I immediately forget its existence.




                      In addition, I'm very fortunate to not be addicted to most of the labels discussed on this forum so I suppose the question doesn't really apply to me.

                      Comment

                      • casem
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2006
                        • 2589

                        #26
                        Re: Do increasing prices affect your consumption?

                        Well said Kronik. Yea, prices have definitely been impacting my decisions. In fact, for a number of reasons I've recently taken a vow to buy no more designer goods unless they are deeply discounted. For one, most of the brands I was once excited about are waning or outright closed, also the recent Cloak sample sale leaves me feeling silly for ever paying full price (plus I was able to get enough cool stuff I should be content for years). I've also come to the conclusion that I could be perfectly happy wearing less expensive brands (but not cheap) like Geller, APC, Benneton, Uniqlo and H&M (living in New York has convinced me of this). I used to go into Dior or somewhere else and think $400 for a shirt was kinda OK or $1500-$2000 for a jacket was a good investment, but lately I just seem to feel so blah about the designer stuff I'm seeing and the prices are making me sick. Part of it is personal, I'm in the last leg of my master's degree and money is running thin until I get (fingers crossed) into a PhD program with a fat stipend [Y] But for now, I feel good, relieved almost, with my decision to write of designer clothes as an option for me for awhile. We'll see how it goes (keep an eye on me in recent purchases [66])
                        music

                        Comment

                        • Faust
                          kitsch killer
                          • Sep 2006
                          • 37849

                          #27
                          Re: Do increasing prices affect your consumption?



                          [quote user="casem83"]Well said Kronik. Yea, prices have definitely been impacting my decisions. In fact, for a number of reasons I've recently taken a vow to buy no more designer goods unless they are deeply discounted. For one, most of the brands I was once excited about are waning or outright closed, also the recent Cloak sample sale leaves me feeling silly for ever paying full price (plus I was able to get enough cool stuff I should be content for years). I've also come to the conclusion that I could be perfectly happy wearing less expensive brands (but not cheap) like Geller, APC, Benneton, Uniqlo and H&M (living in New York has convinced me of this). I used to go into Dior or somewhere else and think $400 for a shirt was kinda OK or $1500-$2000 for a jacket was a good investment, but lately I just seem to feel so blah about the designer stuff I'm seeing and the prices are making me sick. Part of it is personal, I'm in the last leg of my master's degree and money is running thin until I get (fingers crossed) into a PhD program with a fat stipend [Y] But for now, I feel good, relieved almost, with my decision to write of designer clothes as an option for me for awhile. We'll see how it goes (keep an eye on me in recent purchases [66])
                          [/quote]



                          Welcome to New York [Y]

                          Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                          StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                          Comment

                          • therapysessions
                            Senior Member
                            • Jul 2007
                            • 101

                            #28
                            Re: Do increasing prices affect your consumption?



                            Working with robert has REALLY REALLY opened my eyes about the posibilities of solid design and fashion foward image at less-than-ridiculous prices. Developing my own line, I came in with the cliche fantasy of having a high end luxury label (translation: something 1% of the population can afford)..but just being around Robert as he develops and teaches me things and gives me his perspective I've come to realize there is just as good as satisfaction of developing a line at contemporary prices.



                            I personally think this is really the new movement in fashion. Like how H&M, target..etc bring a fashion foward appeal to the low end market, these new labels will continue to push the edginess and high-end design appeal contemporary prices which, in my opinion, have been saturated with "high end basics" for far too long.




                            I think the idea of creating something that people can go to the store, like AND buy is much more satisfying than most reactions I see to high end brands (aka It's amazing, but I can't see myself spending $X on that....or I'll just wait for it to be on sale)

                            Comment

                            • DHC
                              Senior Member
                              • Jul 2007
                              • 2155

                              #29
                              Re: Do increasing prices affect your consumption?

                              Bakla, you raise a great question. Does the diminishing power of the dollar to the euro, really run proportionately to the increased prices we've experienced in the fashion consumer's marketplace? Even with inflation, it seems the rise is far from ad valorem. I find it chilling that such a technique would be so effective in manufacturing demand, as Avantster' posted article so clearly presents.

                              The NYT article, as posted by Faust, leads me to think of Paul Mazur's
                              statement made nearly a century ago. "People must be trained to desire,
                              to want new things, even before the old have been entirely consumed. We
                              must shape a new mentality. Man's desires must overshadow his needs." It scares me how he and Bernays' were able to uncover the principles to engineer this to fruition.









                              Originally posted by Faust
                              fuck you, i don't have an attitude problem.

                              Sartorialoft

                              "She is very ninja, no?" ~Peter Jevnikar

                              Comment

                              • DHC
                                Senior Member
                                • Jul 2007
                                • 2155

                                #30
                                Re: NYT article on rising retail prices.

                                [quote user="sbw4224"]

                                When making purchases my studies in economics actually can become useful. For some reason, utils, or the unit of measurement in rating the satisfaction of the consumption of a good always comes to mind. ( ex. Yohji coat = 200 utils. $1,500 dollars sitting in a bank = 150 utils. Solution? Purchase the Yohji coat for greater satisfaction! [8-|] ). The fact that economists try and quantify satisfaction is really quite funny, but it can almost help a person make smart decisions when it comes to purchasing something.



                                Of course I'm just making light of the situation as I'm sure a lot of big ticket purchases are more based on quick emotions from being in a store/pressure from society/SA's than calculated measurements. I'm sure we're in the minority here of the whole who purchase expensive clothing.



                                [/quote]



                                Haha! I incorporate this formula along with Cas' ritual contemplation whenever making a purchase.

                                Originally posted by Faust
                                fuck you, i don't have an attitude problem.

                                Sartorialoft

                                "She is very ninja, no?" ~Peter Jevnikar

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