Thom Browne SS16, Paris

[Defender]

Let's clarify then, are Thom Browne and Junya Watanabe both incorrect in their appropriation?

If not then how are they different?

Yes they are...it's not different. I believe the only argument has been that the Japanese culture is not a subordinated culture, and therefore the cosplay isn't offensive...just dumb.

I think it's offensive if only for being tacky, silly, and bad design, but also because of the cultural misstep.

[Bson]

Both Junya and Browne are 'artists' who take their craft beyond what limitations some of you think should exist. The collections are obviously an homage to the cultures out of respect; whether or not they are effective, depending on your expectations of a fashion show in Paris in 2015, is another story. Surely anyone can think these collections are offensive but that doesn't change the intrinsic value of the designer's intent, which in these cases is very obvious to me. I don't see why this is even a discussion! If Rei or Junya designed this collection, would anyone have a problem with it? I think that's a better discussion.

Anyways, I think the collection was fine in the typical Thom Browne aesthetic, but I can understand the boredom. Also, real Japanese tradition ensembles in kabuki can be so breathtaking and transporting compared to this collection-- obviously he is mainly just using some Japanese motifs as a new print on his usual grey cuts and showcasing the kimono for the brand's excellence in construction, etc. The hats are maybe the only great artistic homage to the hair and wigs you see in tradition performance...

Thom Browne has always been partly tacky IMO and this isn't much exception. (Branding the sandals with the Red/White/Blue looks terrible). He's best perhaps when he defines his own scenarios rather than so explicitly referencing something which has such a rich and beautiful history.

[1994]

If Rei or Junya designed this collection, would anyone have a problem with it? I think that's a better discussion.

This is already part of the discussion. Please reread my post.

[Bson]

This is already part of the discussion. Please reread my post.

That was a rhetorical question... My point was that it shouldn't matter whether this is Thom Browne or a Japanese person designing the collection. There is a basic element to cultural exchange in the expressive aesthetics such as design, art, music, etc that you are not quite aware of, and I think that's why you won't ever agree with me or some others in the thread.

[Defender]

What does this even mean?

I get it, you think of culture as an outdated term relating to where one is born. I view culture as a series of traditions that border on sacred for many people in many places.

Seeing white guys in kabuki makeup wearing Japanese wooden sandals with red white and blue tags on them is, to me, no different than Amos and Andy minstrel shows. I know you disagree.

It's stepping into the dress of an ancient and proud culture for a silly shitty fashion show.

[k_r_l]

Nor I.

Not I.

Well then: I just saw Junya's show on YT, and must say I found it nicely done.

People need to stop overthinking this, clearly the designer is questioning colonialism here, see the white guy with tribal mask and spear in trad colonist outfit (check the vid, he's even making war dance moves), and presented in the museum of immigration under a tribal soundtrack. Sending black guys down the runaway would only have diluted this message. Same for leaving out all the accessories. I agree its all very in-your-face, but then again I'm a fanboy so

[Faust]

Fanboy, I'm afraid you got it the other way around, lol.

[DudleyGray]

As a Korean American, I found this tribute to the brutal and vicious culture of my motherland's oppressors to be in poor taste.

It's stepping into the dress of an ancient and proud culture for a silly shitty fashion show.

On the flip side of the coin, it's just a shitty fashion show, so who cares?

[clay]

The Kimonos are whatever, but I really like the embroidery/applique and patchwork on the suits. Sure not new but I think the graphic statement looks fantastic.

[SafetyKat]

I appreciated the makeup of the models, it reminded me of an almost "sepia-tone" effect for the whole show itself. I not talking about the models' race but rather their uniformity in makeup and styling. Now if only they only applied the effect to the models hands and arms to match...

On a side note:

Quoted from style.com: "The models, with their white skin, black lips, pomaded hair, and tiny dark glasses, looked like a mad scientist's efforts to create a master race in an old black-and-white movie..."

I'm a bit confused. Is Tim Blanks hinting at what might be insensitive appropriation or am I reading too much into fashion show review?