Rick Owens Womenswear FW07/08 - Paris

[Faust]

Re: Rick Owens Womenswear FW07/08 - Paris

[quote user="nambla"][quote user="Servo2000"]

I'm spotting a lot of similiar jackets and pieces, ideas perhaps, that appeared in the mens show, as Nambla mentioned. I think the ugliness worked better on the men, and I think his attempt to "feminize" the shapes even somewhat fell rather flat. The stylish, while bizarre, is lackluster. It's simply strange, without even managing to pique the interest by doing so.

As you can tell, not really a huge fan of this, even though I loved the mens version of this, which, as Faust said, is rather rare.

[/quote]

No offence but one can tell you and faust are american ;) Im not too fond of the insect silhouette shaped jackets but the rest is really brilliant. taking some of the feminine away and adding a mysterious and dominating look is something I love. Some of the styling isnt perfect but the jackets themselves are really brilliant in their construction.

[/quote]

Really? I'm an American? Interesting... Besides the fact that I'm not an American, what was so American in what we said?

[nambla]

Re: Rick Owens Womenswear FW07/08 - Paris

You live in america. Maybe what i wrote was a bit over the line though (;

I mean you are quite strict in what is fashionable and not. womenswear has to a certain point be feminine and your views on things can sometimes be narrowminded

[Faust]

Re: Rick Owens Womenswear FW07/08 - Paris

[quote user="nambla"]You live in america. Maybe what i wrote was a bit over the line though (;

I mean you are quite strict in what is fashionable and not. womenswear has to a certain point be feminine and your views on things can sometimes be narrowminded

[/quote]

You obviously have no idea about my taste, even though I post extensively here. I like womenswear as different as Dries van Noten, Junya Watanabe, and Ann Demeulemeester. What's narrowminded? Can you give an example? I can't operate in vague terms like "your view on things."

[Servo2000]

Re: Rick Owens Womenswear FW07/08 - Paris

[quote user="nambla"]You live in america. Maybe what i wrote was a bit over the line though (;

I mean you are quite strict in what is fashionable and not. womenswear has to a certain point be feminine and your views on things can sometimes be narrowminded

[/quote]

An ignorant assumption. My idol is TG76, as I've said time and time again. In what way that is to a certain point "feminine" is beyond me. In fact, there is a very distinct air of feminity in the pieces that do "work", but I think that the silhouette he tried to apply from the mens collection does not translate as well to the female physique, in general. I simply stated what I do not like, although perhaps from now on I'll also mention everything I do, which rather sounds a pain since it typically says less than what I dislike, unfortunately. Secondly, although there are exceptions (for instance as we saw in the recently posted Margiela women's collection with the experimentation with extrapolation of anatomy and the human form in an architectural manner), in general fashion and clothing should be firmly based in an understanding of the body, and there are times when a piece simply does not function on a certain type of body. In my opinion, some of the "ugly" pieces I referred to are what I consider a "poor fit" just as much as I might an ill-fitting jacket, and by saying so I mean that I think it fails to offer an interpretation or addition of the human body I find pleasing. I have seen these "ugly" colors and ideas work for women before, and in this instance it simply does not in most of the outfits presented.

On my second point, how it appears "strange without piquing the interest," or somesuch, I feel I should address what I mentioned earlier which is simply poor wording on my part ("interpretation or addition"): clothing should not be an accessorry or a "decoration," god forbid. The ideal should be that it reveals more and explains more about the person underneath without garishly and pointlessly "decorating" it. (the beautiful forms and exacting patterns of classic native american pottery provide the perfect example of pieces that are a whole, whose pattern adds to the form and the whole rather than simply sitting there, distracting and meaningless) In my opinion, these forms that Rick has presented with this collection are some pieces that manage to compliment the female form in the way that many have said of Yamamoto before: it creates an air of feminity that is different from the usual without altogether abandoning the female "ideal" or form, just as Comme des Garcons has done the same for men, at times both successful and unsuccesful in these re-interpretations. On the other hand, he presents a great many that simply "decorate" the form and do nothing else to it.

You could argue that I have very strict views on what is fashionable or not, but that is simply not true. "Fashionable" to me is a pointless concept, by and large. What I do have is a strict manner of viewing art and design and so on, and I will not interpret fashion any different in philosophy or aesthetic than I do anything else, so my views on what are "fashionable" may ultimately be viewed as such.

I'm rambling at this point and I'm not sure how coherent of an argument that is, but tear it to pieces and I'll do what I can to respond. I'm sure I'll want to edit silly linguistic errors later, try not to take me too much to task for not considering my specific wording too much, but I'll resist until I see what anyone else thinks.

[nambla]

Re: Rick Owens Womenswear FW07/08 - Paris

Oh my.

Sorry I don't have the time answerering as thoroughly as you do Servo. You state you think poor fit equals the "ugliness" in rick owens pieces. But I think these two are not the same at all. Rick owens pieces in this collection doesn't have a poor fit. They seem to fit excellent, however the silhouette doesnt use the typical female body shapes (the thing you said yourself), and this is obivously owens thought. To define ugly fit in my opinion is when the designer tries to create a silhouette - and fails.

Faust; for example in the vandervorst thread you stated out the red dress to be a magnificant piece ( as if this piece was the best in your opinion, this dress was also one of the most classic and safe dresses) but honestly I cant really base the thing i said on examples its simply a feeling I get.

[macuser3of5]

Re: Rick Owens Womenswear FW07/08 - Paris

Wow, this collection is an utter disappointment; completely poor texture and color choices for the knits. The shape is too anti-flattering for the amount of texture he's using, you really can't have both; at some level you need to ground the work against the form, and I just don't see it happening here overall. The leather and puffy fabric work are merely OK (being generous), and like Laika mentioned, theree is a complete lack of anything for the bottom half. Utterly ignored. Compare this to S/S 2003, or any earlier Owens collection, and it's is even more apparent. Owens fumbled. You know it's bad when you draw inspiration from someone parodying fashionable women and follow the work to a T. Oops! [:P]

And yes, I'm American, so fucking what. Rick Owens is too. [:S]

[Monty76]

Re: Rick Owens Womenswear FW07/08 - Paris



I don't really see anything wrong with him ignoring the bottom half. First of all, i think it allows him to focus on what he is good at, which is obviously the outerwear. And, by presenting one skirt he has essentially createdhis "goto" skirt of the season, a skirtso versatile it could go with any one of his looks.

And as for the unflattering fit, i feel the exact opposite. I think that the looseness and slight wideness in the body (on some of the outerwear)accentuates the natural shape of the shoulders, which i really think is the sexiest feature in thefemale form. However, that might just be due to my shoulder fetish.

And about the oversize hooded jacket -I think its brilliant on the condition that the arms arent attached to the bodylikeon the other flight jackets. From the picture it does look like it might be attached.

[Faust]

Re: Rick Owens Womenswear FW07/08 - Paris

[quote user="nambla"]Oh my.

Sorry I don't have the time answerering as thoroughly as you do Servo. You state you think poor fit equals the "ugliness" in rick owens pieces. But I think these two are not the same at all. Rick owens pieces in this collection doesn't have a poor fit. They seem to fit excellent, however the silhouette doesnt use the typical female body shapes (the thing you said yourself), and this is obivously owens thought. To define ugly fit in my opinion is when the designer tries to create a silhouette - and fails.

Faust; for example in the vandervorst thread you stated out the red dress to be a magnificant piece ( as if this piece was the best in your opinion, this dress was also one of the most classic and safe dresses) but honestly I cant really base the thing i said on examples its simply a feeling I get.

[/quote]

Ok, a feeling is a feeling. I just don't see how my tastes correspond to me living in America. What's a Swedish ideal of femininity?

[Casius]

Re: Rick Owens Womenswear FW07/08 - Paris

I just find all this talk about American fashion sense and ideals funny, when the designer in question is from California.

[laika]

Re: Rick Owens Womenswear FW07/08 - Paris

[quote user="nambla"]You live in america. Maybe what i wrote was a bit over the line though (;

I mean you are quite strict in what is fashionable and not. womenswear has to a certain point be feminine and your views on things can sometimes be narrowminded

[/quote]

You have got to be kidding me with this. You are calling Servo and Faust narrow-minded but you yourself only post about collections that correspond to your personal aesthetic? [^o)]

[nambla]

Re: Rick Owens Womenswear FW07/08 - Paris

rick owens is american, yes. and he is one of the few american designers that interest me.

laika, I never said I wasnt narrow minded. Im very narrow minded indeed. I'm having a very hard time being objective on things. I was only pointing out that they didn't seem too keen on deforming the female body into something that is put away from the ideal, and this is what I would (maybe a bit over-rated) narrow minded.

Faust: I would like to say I hate the "typical" swedish/scandinavian fashion even more than american, however because I live in scandinavia, i subconsciously obtain certain views, thoughts regarding clothes and design and they can sometimes even translate into what I design myself, something I hate myself for doing :)

[laika]

Re: Rick Owens Womenswear FW07/08 - Paris



Ok, fair enough. We all have personal prejudices that we can't escape, and it's good that you recognize yours! One of mine is that I really dislike Rick Owens (hides).

But like you were saying in the Txell Miras thread, there are different ways of "deforming" the female body, some of them more successful than others. I think what Servo was saying is that this is not particularly successful. Personally, I don't see anything as inventive as deformation going on here--so he made an unflattering silhouette, so he put insect hats on the model's heads. It's hard to get excited about it, especially since I know he has a big problem making clothes that actually fit!

[Seventh]

Re: Rick Owens Womenswear FW07/08 - Paris



I think we need to cut through the nationalistic silliness (Americans are this, Scandinavians are that, etc...) Nambla, man, you dug yourself a hole!

However, I think Nambla brings up an interesting point about how he defines ugliness vs. poor fit.

"They seem to fit excellent, however the silhouette doesnt use the
typical female body shapes (the thing you said yourself), and this is
obivously owens thought. To define ugly fit in my opinion is when the
designer tries to create a silhouette - and fails. "

I also find myself liking the some of the odd/loose shapes of the outerwear that Owens comes up with--I find it challenging in a good way and think it might look great on certain builds. I also think it is dependent on how the pieces flow as the person moves. I also didn't think of the insect reference as imediately negative. However, I can also see why other people might disagree and find it ugly...

[dontbecruel]

Re: Rick Owens Womenswear FW07/08 - Paris

[quote user="laika"]

We all have personal prejudices that we can't escape, and it's good that you recognize yours! One of mine is that I really dislike Rick Owens (hides).

[/quote]

Aha, I share this prejudice! I was thinking for a while about why Rick Owens seems so completely naff to me and I came up with two reasons:

1) His clothes always look like they were designed by the BBC props
department some time in the mid-70s, either for a production of Julius
Caesar or for one of those shakey cardboard set sci-fi dramas (Blake's
Seven, Doctor Who).
2) He is personally hideous to look at, as if someone took the singer from the Chilli Peppers and stuck a bicycle pump up his arse.

Now I need to run and hide.

[Faust]

Re: Rick Owens Womenswear FW07/08 - Paris

[quote user="dontbecruel"][quote user="laika"]

We all have personal prejudices that we can't escape, and it's good that you recognize yours! One of mine is that I really dislike Rick Owens (hides).

[/quote]

Aha, I share this prejudice! I was thinking for a while about why Rick Owens seems so completely naff to me and I came up with two reasons:

1) His clothes always look like they were designed by the BBC props
department some time in the mid-70s, either for a production of Julius
Caesar or for one of those shakey cardboard set sci-fi dramas (Blake's
Seven, Doctor Who).
2) He is personally hideous to look at, as if someone took the singer from the Chilli Peppers and stuck a bicycle pump up his arse.

Now I need to run and hide.

[/quote]

lol. the chilli peppers reference is funny...