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  • Faust
    kitsch killer
    • Sep 2006
    • 37849

    Of course you can listen to music ironically, just like you can experience any cultural artifact ironically. Haven't you two heard of camp? Well, apathy probably has not, but I am sure DRKKK, you have.

    "The connoisseur of Camp has found more ingenious pleasures. Not in Latin poetry and rare wines and velvet jackets, but in the coarsest, commonest pleasures, in the arts of the masses. Mere use does not defile the objects of his pleasure, since he learns to possess them in a rare way"

    And

    "This is why so many of the objects prized by Camp taste are old-fashioned, out-of-date, démodé. It's not a love of the old as such. It's simply that the process of aging or deterioration provides the necessary detachment -- or arouses a necessary sympathy. When the theme is important, and contemporary, the failure of a work of art may make us indignant. Time can change that. Time liberates the work of art from moral relevance, delivering it over to the Camp sensibility. . . . Another effect: time contracts the sphere of banality. (Banality is, strictly speaking, always a category of the contemporary.) What was banal can, with the passage of time, become fantastic. Many people who listen with delight to the style of Rudy Vallee revived by the English pop group, The Temperance Seven, would have been driven up the wall by Rudy Vallee in his heyday."

    That's what Landadel is alluding too, albeit not altogether successfully.

    Here is an example of ironic listening - when I was about 13 Sandra was popular in the Soviet Union (DRKK, I assume since you are German I don't have to explain who she is to you), and I listened to that. Two years or so later I discovered better music and was ashamed that I listened to such garbage. Recently, I was mulling over an idea of doing a synth-pop/euro party and all of a sudden Sandra popped into my mind. I listened to a few of her popular songs and because so much time passed and I have critical distance from it + nostalgia, I was able to enjoy it in a way that is silly, not thinking much beyond a catchy beat. I knew that as a cultural work it's a failure, but with passage of time this failure no longer matters, and I am able to tease out details that are superficially enjoyable.
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

    StyleZeitgeist Magazine

    Comment

    • DRRRK
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2009
      • 1195

      I see what you mean and I have experienced these effects you marked as well. There is a difference for me though. When it is not a personal evolution, a discovery of a quality you haven't seen seen before, just an attitude to like what is so out there (but isn't) collectively, I am out. I would not call your rediscovery of Sandra ironic. You sound serious there, nostalgia is more melancholic than it is ironic.

      This one sounds better than in the eighties. Ahead of their time.

      Comment

      • Faust
        kitsch killer
        • Sep 2006
        • 37849

        Believe me, there is nothing serious about my liking of Sandra.
        Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

        StyleZeitgeist Magazine

        Comment

        • apathy!
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2014
          • 393

          Originally posted by Faust View Post
          Of course you can listen to music ironically, just like you can experience any cultural artifact ironically. Haven't you two heard of camp? Well, apathy probably has not, but I am sure DRKKK, you have.

          "The connoisseur of Camp has found more ingenious pleasures. Not in Latin poetry and rare wines and velvet jackets, but in the coarsest, commonest pleasures, in the arts of the masses. Mere use does not defile the objects of his pleasure, since he learns to possess them in a rare way"

          And

          "This is why so many of the objects prized by Camp taste are old-fashioned, out-of-date, démodé. It's not a love of the old as such. It's simply that the process of aging or deterioration provides the necessary detachment -- or arouses a necessary sympathy. When the theme is important, and contemporary, the failure of a work of art may make us indignant. Time can change that. Time liberates the work of art from moral relevance, delivering it over to the Camp sensibility. . . . Another effect: time contracts the sphere of banality. (Banality is, strictly speaking, always a category of the contemporary.) What was banal can, with the passage of time, become fantastic. Many people who listen with delight to the style of Rudy Vallee revived by the English pop group, The Temperance Seven, would have been driven up the wall by Rudy Vallee in his heyday."

          That's what Landadel is alluding too, albeit not altogether successfully.

          Here is an example of ironic listening - when I was about 13 Sandra was popular in the Soviet Union (DRKK, I assume since you are German I don't have to explain who she is to you), and I listened to that. Two years or so later I discovered better music and was ashamed that I listened to such garbage. Recently, I was mulling over an idea of doing a synth-pop/euro party and all of a sudden Sandra popped into my mind. I listened to a few of her popular songs and because so much time passed and I have critical distance from it + nostalgia, I was able to enjoy it in a way that is silly, not thinking much beyond a catchy beat. I knew that as a cultural work it's a failure, but with passage of time this failure no longer matters, and I am able to tease out details that are superficially enjoyable.
          strange subtle insults aside, it sounds like you just got over yourself and are able to enjoy the qualities you honestly like in some music even if it is near the bottom of the cultural pile. I don't think it's ironic.



          Originally posted by DRRRK View Post
          Don't you know bad taste parties? The concept behind these is just: Irony. Come to Germany. As mentioned before, people are having a laugh looking at 80s hairmetal videos. These songs get played in clubs (which I should avoid...) on request by the same people. I highly doubt that music regarded as shit in the past by most is now loved, or that one can listen to this stuff at home alone. It's a herd thing.


          A brief celebration of something a little fun is understandable right?

          By "ironcially listening to music" I thought that you meant that you know people who deliberately listen to music they don't like to gain some kind of satisfaction.

          Comment

          • Lohikaarme
            Senior Member
            • Jul 2013
            • 624

            Other than the hippie connotations, Birkenstocks are pretty good for what they are, especially the ones from collaborations. Seenmy worked them well, as did The-Arm.

            Comment

            • guardimp
              Senior Member
              • Jun 2010
              • 320

              Satisfaction from listening to music you don't like could be exemplified by hipsters. Listening to music that you don't like to feel superior to people who willingly listen to it. Because the music you don't like is obviously inferior to some other music for some absurd reason. But is that ironically listening to the music?

              I see the theme in a clothing setting in something like ugly sweater parties or 4chan /fa/ or kanyetothe. Autists circle jerking around their perceived superiority. Is it irony, bad taste, or just an alternate way of thinking about things?

              How do you experience something ironically? Am I supposed to feel something specific from a certain stimuli? I'm not sure what irony is anymore.

              Comment

              • Faust
                kitsch killer
                • Sep 2006
                • 37849

                Originally posted by apathy! View Post
                strange subtle insults aside, it sounds like you just got over yourself and are able to enjoy the qualities you honestly like in some music even if it is near the bottom of the cultural pile. I don't think it's ironic.
                You are an ignoramus. And this is neither subtle or ironic, I hope.
                Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                Comment

                • apathy!
                  Senior Member
                  • Jan 2014
                  • 393

                  Originally posted by guardimp View Post
                  Satisfaction from listening to music you don't like could be exemplified by hipsters. Listening to music that you don't like to feel superior to people who willingly listen to it. Because the music you don't like is obviously inferior to some other music for some absurd reason.
                  I see what you're saying here. A kind of extension of arrogant cultural elitism that is best avoided.

                  Originally posted by Faust View Post
                  You are an ignoramus. And this is neither subtle or ironic, I hope.
                  no, but it is embarassing. Settle down.

                  Comment

                  • Dorje
                    Senior Member
                    • Oct 2013
                    • 284

                    Originally posted by Faust View Post
                    You are an ignoramus. And this is neither subtle or ironic, I hope.
                    Dude...with all respect... you wouldn't allow this from anyone else and insults, censoring and banning don't make this a place anyone wants to hang out.

                    Comment

                    • Landadel
                      Banned
                      • Jul 2014
                      • 74

                      Originally posted by guardimp View Post
                      Listening to music that you don't like to feel superior to people who willingly listen to it. Because the music you don't like is obviously inferior to some other music for some absurd reason. But is that ironically listening to the music?
                      Listening to music you dislike can be entertaining if you look at it as an exploration of other people´s taste. Trying to understand why people like certain things can be quite interesting.

                      And then there´s the category of "guilty pleasures", like Faust´s Sarah for example. I´ve learned to embrace those by now and I only blush a little when being asked about mine.

                      Comment

                      • interest1
                        Senior Member
                        • Nov 2008
                        • 3343


                        I always did think this thread was best served with photos.
                        Especially those containing products of, er, 'dubious distinction'.


                        Apparently, someone has invented a "flatulence deodorizing pad".









                        To determine whether you prefer reusable or disposable,

                        visit their website
                        .
                        sain't
                        .

                        Comment

                        • interest1
                          Senior Member
                          • Nov 2008
                          • 3343


                          A few left on eBay!

                          priceless.
                          .
                          sain't
                          .

                          Comment

                          • eleves
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2012
                            • 524

                            Originally posted by interest1 View Post

                            A few left on eBay!

                            priceless.
                            Ugh, that first picture

                            Originally posted by Faust
                            HOBBY?! HOBBY?!?!?!?!?! You are on SZ, buddy - it ain't no hobby, it's passion, religion, and unbounded cosmic love rolled into one.

                            Comment

                            • apathy!
                              Senior Member
                              • Jan 2014
                              • 393

                              Originally posted by eleves View Post
                              Ugh, that first picture

                              I think that picture perfectly captures the state you have to be in to buy the product.

                              They're basically insulting you with the advertisment.

                              Comment

                              • 550BC
                                Senior Member
                                • Jan 2013
                                • 783

                                a fish out of water dies

                                Comment

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