random fashion thoughts

[Fuuma]

If the change is between good taste and avant-garde taste, what does bad taste equate to?

Bad taste is opposed to good taste. kitsch is opposed to avant-garde. Avant can only use kitsch by molding it into camp. It is not that we went from "one extreme" (i.e. good taste) to another (i.e. avant-garde) but that one group values one thing (and detested its opposite) while another values another (and detests its opposite).

[Pumpfish]

Bad taste is opposed to good taste. kitsch is opposed to avant-garde.

Kitsch is what first occurred to me too, but the avant-garde is self aware and actually cares. So for me, the opposite is indifference.

[Pumpfish]

Zamb and Pumpfish

Both of you assume that the bad taste is backed by understanding and/or not caring. Is bad taste bourgeois - a figment of a society that is dependent on dichotomies to survive? While you have things that are translatable between the two societies it seems like some things in each are not found in the other.

Not really. Good Taste requires Bad Taste to define it.

What does Avant Garde define itself against?

[casem]

The "norm".

Not really. Good Taste requires Bad Taste to define it.

What does Avant Garde define itself against?

[Fuuma]

The "norm".

The calcified energy of the previous avant-garde that became "the art establishment". It is an endless chain of reaction and counter-reaction.

[guardimp]

So in a sense good taste in the previous establishment becomes bad taste to counterbalance the new Avant Garde good taste? Making the whole thing kind of a cyclical change?

[Faust]

Fuuma must be feeling like he's teaching art history 101.

[Fuuma]

So in a sense good taste in the previous establishment becomes bad taste to counterbalance the new Avant Garde good taste? Making the whole thing kind of a cyclical change?

No. Damnit! Good taste/bad taste is a bourgeois dichotomy!! Other groups use it but not in such an absolute sense, in the arts avant-garde just like in SZ designs it is almost irrelevant.

[Defender]

If SZ was started some 6-8 years ago...that's enough time for the SZ aesthetic to be the establishment...which explains people from reddit and /fa/ knowing about/joining this place. What is the next fashion wave that people will be starting the next "SZ" forum for?

[casem]

I wonder, are there avant-garde forms that don't become the establishment? Is it possible to have an avant-garde so radical it can never be digested by the establishment? And, if such a thing exists/has existed will it simply be erased by history?

I also think the loop between mainstream and avant-garde is somewhat uneven. An avant-garde movement cannot exist without an establishment to react against. However, I think the establishment may continue without an avant-garde, though it becomes stale if it doesn't consume and normalize avant-garde ideas to reinvigorate itself.

The calcified energy of the previous avant-garde that became "the art establishment". It is an endless chain of reaction and counter-reaction.

[Faust]

If SZ was started some 6-8 years ago...that's enough time for the SZ aesthetic to be the establishment...which explains people from reddit and /fa/ knowing about/joining this place. What is the next fashion wave that people will be starting the next "SZ" forum for?

Women's lingerie, I hope.

[AKA*NYC]

I wonder, are there avant-garde forms that don't become the establishment? Is it possible to have an avant-garde so radical it can never be digested by the establishment? And, if such a thing exists/has existed will it simply be erased by history?

(early) italian fascism = all three of the above with the recent futurist retrospective at the guggenheim notwithstanding

[DudleyGray]

Just discovered the magic that is fleece-lined leggings. How did I not know of this until now? I definitely need a shirt in this material.

[HugAndWug]

Just discovered the magic that is fleece-lined leggings. How did I not know of this until now? I definitely need a shirt in this material.

From anywhere special or no?

And yeah, living/traveling in colder climates you really need fleece/flannel lined things to not suffer.

[DudleyGray]

It was just an impulse buy while I was out getting Aleve, and they're making all the difference when I take my dog out on walks. If you or anyone can recommend a a cozy fleece-lined base layer shirt though, I'm all ears.