What are you wearing today?

[Mail-Moth]

@Mail-moth : this outfit is far from a cosplay one, very far. I'd say, on the contrary, that BSR did there a nicely toned down Julius outfit, and a very personal one. Imo the first pic is HOF worthy without any doubt.

I was of course talking about Julius in general. BSR's outfit is not my favourite from him, because of this smooth leather matched with those beat-up boots - but I wouldn't go as far as calling it cosplay.

In addition, you know that one's fantasies are always connected with the childhood. So I wouldn't mind even some cosplay dressing.

I wouldn't put childhood and teen-age in the same bag. Teen-age fantasies are fantasies of the pack. Childhood fantasies relate to the individual.
Lumina's "fishy" tee is childish in the best way possible. It is about fascination and playfulness at the same time. It is something that one single kid could keep on watching from a bridge for long minutes, with no other purpose than enjoying movement and light.
Your outfits are often childish too, in a good sense, because they play with unusual shapes and proportions that convey a strong feeling of exotism. Pour l'enfant amateur de cartes et d'estampes etc.
I don't feel anything like that in Julius. It just has the kind of contrived gravity with which teenagers often regard their half-baked ideas.

(Please read IMHO at the beginning of each sentence.)

[Faust]

Mail-Moth - I can see how you could read Julius like that, without a doubt. However, I don't think clothes should necessarily reflect what we do - i.e. only soldiers are allowed to wear military, etc. - but rather to certain currents within our personality. Some people listen to punk but need to pay rent, so they are stuck at day-jobs. I've been there.

[Chant]

I agree with you, the Moth, even though I'd say that childhood and teenage fantasies aren't that much disconnected. But you're right, they're definitely under the pressure of the market, which need to format them to make them bankable.

Strange nevetheless that you go so quickly - or "sauvagement", au sens de l'analyse sauvage - from the outfit to the wearer's intention/fantasy. I saw it only as a try, as I already said, to achieve an absolutely continuous outfit, with none of its guiding lines being broken. And as a great success.

[Mail-Moth]

I'm not talking about the wearer's intention at all, nor am I favorable to a perfect match between a brand and people wearing it - we already had a similar discussion on a different thread not so long ago, and you both might remember that my opinion was in fact quite remote from that. So I don't care about BSR's intentions ; more exactly I would never allow myself to judge them. I'm judging the designer's work, his universe, the way he puts it on a runway scene : I personally find it gross. I still may like some of his clothes out of that context, but that's impossible for something as emblematic as a leather jacket.

As for this pic, as I've already said, what disturbs me is the lack of coherence in the textures of the leather garments. I can see what you mean though, Christian. Same goes for the connection between childhood and teenage. But connection does not mean complete similarity. The gregary component of the latter changes lots of things.

[BSR]

mmm... sorry but i don't get the current despise against teenagers. "times they are a-changin..."

plus, young children are the target of marketing strategies as well as teenagers (and i could argue that children are more formated than teens).

and do you think there are genuine individual fantasies that are not connected to the group in a way or another?

[Liquid]

Mail-Moth - I can see how you could read Julius like that, without a doubt. However, I don't think clothes should necessarily reflect what we do - i.e. only soldiers are allowed to wear military, etc. - but rather to certain currents within our personality. Some people listen to punk but need to pay rent, so they are stuck at day-jobs. I've been there.

I would take this conversation a bit further. Call me delusional, but I think clothes should never reflect what we do, it would be inauthentic.

A soldier for example, wears full utilitarian military when out fighting a war, when out doing what he does, wearing that armor is part of what he does, but rarely a part of who he is.

Take that soldier and put him back home in a liberating space, you'll never see him put on a onslaught of julius/military chic/ etc. When you let a soldier choose his own garb, for expressive purposes, few soldiers would wear military.

Further still, an example of a punk rocker. I think a person fully living a punk rocker lifestyle, would not be dressed up in leather and chains, and surely not $3000 leather and chains, but just in whatever he can find, because he doesn't need his clothes to express that he's a punk rocker, it's already too much ingrained in his identity.

But a young city office worker, who has romantic thoughts of identifying with a punk rocker, he does need leather and chains to express his will, his idea of what he wants to look like, even if it is not who he is. However we have come full circle now, and I would argue that it is exactly who he is. He is a person who has the aesthetic of a punk rocker in his imagination, in his fantasy, so it is exactly how he should dress. His imagination is who he really is, while his reality, him being a well-off city office worker, is a muzzle on his expression.

I am in a way giving authenticity to being a "poser" but I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

[Mail-Moth]

mmm... sorry but i don't get the current despise against teenagers. "times they are a-changin..."

Not against teenagers themselves, mind you. Rather against the commercial exploitation of teenage fears and aspirations. It is one thing, for example, to wish the world would collapse. It is another to sell you games about you being the only survivor of a global cataclysm. That's caricatural, but you certainly get the idea.
(But well, I have to admit I've been a little harsh speaking of "half-baked ideas". I was just out from giving marks.)

plus, young children are the target of marketing strategies as well as teenagers (and i could argue that children are more formated than teens).

It is true, sadly. Peers pressure concerning what you wear and what you own appears more and more early. Seeing that everyday.

and do you think there are genuine individual fantasies that are not connected to the group in a way or another?

Of course not. Everything is related to some form of community, and to what you experiment in it. But a child's vision of his community is certainly wider than the one of a teenager, who will rather favor his similars in age and taste over most of the adults surrounding him, peers pressure becoming a lot more important than parents pressure - at least apparently. Plus, puberty brings a little more urge here, since the stakes behind recognition and achievement are becoming more obvious with time.

[BSR]

Thanks for your answers MM, we've done a perfect asynchronous interview! We are far away from the WAYWT thread, let's continue this conversation in private and... in French, for fuck's sake!

[Mail-Moth]

IRL would be much appreciated. I'll PM you !

[seenmy]

much as i love this jacket I think it may be one size to big

[endersgame]

^^ seenmy, i remember that advertised as a 50 that fits like a 48. how does it really fit?


and the KKA took my baby away..

[seenmy]

thats the leather parka I think? which I also have I would say it dose fit around a 48/50 I could probably squeeze in to a 48 but the 50 gives me good movement, the above jacket is a 52 which I picked up on my last Paris visit,its still quite restrictive across the back but when I look at it on I feel I could shave a few cm of the shoulder distance

[endersgame]

oh, thanks seenmy. i didn't know you had both. but different sizes..

eternal, when i got it, the first thing i thought was this should be leather! lol..

[Faust]

Mail-Moth, what's good for the wearer is doubly good for a designer! Nothing wrong with drawing inspiration from your teenager years! The thing is Horikawa WAS that teenager, just like Ann was that teenager, etc. He is not Gucci saying, "Ok, what else can we latch onto and exploit." And he certainly does not wish that the world would collapse, lol. He is just acknowledging the weight of the world, its imperfection, it's menace. etc. Now you can say it's all bullshit, but I'd rather not be this cynical.

Liquid - feeling is not posing. I don't think you are advocating that.

[kuugaia]

kuugaia - what pants are those? and what version of guidis? (assuming they're guidis)

They are donkey backzips, yes Guidi. The pants are CON, more local to Australia I think.

Sorry I keep forgetting to tag what items are in the pic. Will edit in.

VVVV
Quite sure its ccp. Just wanted to add that seenmy you look fuking sick. But yes the shoulders look slightly big.