Current Events

[deadboy]

Re: your question cjbreed, I was reacting to posts I kept seeing pop up on social media, basically variants of: this is why we shouldn't accept so many refugees, don't equate Islam with ISIS, we need more guns, fuck this/that/all religions. There's something very weird and awful about people falling back on talking points during and in the immediate wake of a massacre like this, before all or even any of the facts are known.

Re: antitheism. I'm going off Hitchens's definition. If you think belief and religion are inherently bad for the individual and the world, fine. I just don't think it's particularly useful.

[En.]

Re: your question cjbreed, I was reacting to posts I kept seeing pop up on social media, basically variants of: this is why we shouldn't accept so many refugees, don't equate Islam with ISIS, we need more guns, fuck this/that/all religions. There's something very weird and awful about people falling back on talking points during and in the immediate wake of a massacre like this, before all or even any of the facts are known.

There's nothing wrong about those. ISIS exists because of Islam and the radicals exist because they are following what is said in the Qur'an. The only reason why every Muslim isn't acting similarly is because they do not completely follow Islam. Hell, the punishment for apostasy is death.

[nvsnli]

Most troubling for me is that the radical islam seem to be most present with 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants.

[Faust]

Re: your question cjbreed, I was reacting to posts I kept seeing pop up on social media, basically variants of: this is why we shouldn't accept so many refugees, don't equate Islam with ISIS, we need more guns, fuck this/that/all religions. There's something very weird and awful about people falling back on talking points during and in the immediate wake of a massacre like this, before all or even any of the facts are known.

Re: antitheism. I'm going off Hitchens's definition. If you think belief and religion are inherently bad for the individual and the world, fine. I just don't think it's particularly useful.

Is every political stance just a talking point with you? What if my political stance is a product of long and hard consideration based on historical, societal, and political knowledge? What do you know about people to stereotype like this? What bullshit.

[MJRH]

Re: antitheism. I'm going off Hitchens's definition. If you think belief and religion are inherently bad for the individual and the world, fine. I just don't think it's particularly useful.

You seem to be conflating correlation and causation in your posts. There are plenty of wonderful, inspiring human beings who are devoutly religious. Nobody (sane) is arguing against that. The argument is that adherents of Christianity and Islam are more likely than atheists to shed blood. A pessimist might say that's because we haven't given atheists a chance yet, but so far the historical record is one big fucking red flag against religion, at least to those of us who believe in the fundamental (heh) value of human life.

By the way, when you say that something is fine and useless in the same breath, it patronizes your readers.

[Lucky Strike]

The only reason why every Muslim isn't acting similarly is because they do not completely follow Islam. Hell, the punishment for apostasy is death.

Wow! Never thought I would read this type of fb bullshit on sz.

Read the koran is my advise. Its pretty interesting even for an atheist.

[nvsnli]

Wow! Never thought I would read this type of fb bullshit on sz.

Read the koran is my advise. Its pretty interesting even for an atheist.

Stop being daft.
There are millions of christians and other religions represented in the middle-east yet they do not carry out attacks of hate towards other religions etc.

Even if you say 15-20% of world Muslims are radical that means +180 million radicals.

I quote another poster from another forum to prove a point.

And yet almost all of the global terrorism seems to be mental people who believe in Islam. What an odd coincidence. Kenya, Nigeria, Libya, Egpyt, Tunisia, Algeria...yep Islamic terrorism. What about Asia? Malaysia, Thailand, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Indonesia, The Phillipines? Yep shit loads of Islamic terrorism again. Europe? Other than the IRA and ETA (who sent warnings to avoid deaths) it's pretty much all Islamic and the Islamic terrorism aims at killing as many as possible.

The Qur'an does matter. It's most violent instructions are the later surahs and in Islam the later surahs take precedent over the earlier ones. 27% of British Muslims surveyed felt sympathy with the motives of the Charlie Hebdo killers. So over a quarter of the Muslim population has a mental illness? Or maybe it's because in the Hadith, Muhammad orders the execution of two poets who wrote poems that mocked him.

0% of British Muslims surveyed felt that homosexuality was acceptable.

This is from an extensive survey of Muslim opinions by the independent Pew Research Center...

Percentage of those who agree with stoning to death for adultery...

Percentage wanting the death penalty for someone leaving Islam...

32% of Muslim students surveyed in the UK felt killing in the name of religion could be justified. A third back a global Islamic Caliphate with Sharia Law as the governing system. Just under a quarter think men and women are not equal in the eyes of God...now bear in mind that they surveyed women in this too...what do you reckon the percentage of Muslim male students was that felt this way?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/reli...-students.html

This is in the UK! These are young, British born Muslims who grew up with the liberal, UK media and went to mixed schools where they will usually have had non Muslim friends etc. Guess what the views are like in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

[galia]

You seem to be conflating correlation and causation in your posts. There are plenty of wonderful, inspiring human beings who are devoutly religious. Nobody (sane) is arguing against that. The argument is that adherents of Christianity and Islam are more likely than atheists to shed blood. A pessimist might say that's because we haven't given atheists a chance yet, but so far the historical record is one big fucking red flag against religion, at least to those of us who believe in the fundamental (heh) value of human life.

I would suggest you read up about communism, the main atheistic ideology, and probably the deadliest one so far

[Lucky Strike]

Stop being daft.
There are millions of christians and other religions represented in the middle-east yet they do not carry out attacks of hate towards other religions etc.

Even if you say 15-20% of world Muslims are radical that means +180 million radicals.

I quote another poster from another forum to prove a point.

32% of Muslim students surveyed in the UK felt killing in the name of religion could be justified. A third back a global Islamic Caliphate with Sharia Law as the governing system. Just under a quarter think men and women are not equal in the eyes of God...now bear in mind that they surveyed women in this too...what do you reckon the percentage of Muslim male students was that felt this way?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/reli...-students.html

Alrighty, where do I begin?

Let see, first does Muslim countries exploit christians? No...maybe thats why there are no christian terrorists in muslim countries?

But on the subject Im pretty sure christians have killed more muslims in the middle east than vice versa. Just a hunch...but I can look it up if you really want the statistics.

Secondly...what type of terrorism do we have in europe?

Out of 199 attacks in 2014...2 were considered religiously motivated.
So maybe...just maybe most terrorists are not doing it cause Islam tells them to? I dont know but 197 sure sounds like a bigger number than 2.
This is according to Europols TE-SAT 2015 (Terrorism Situation and Trend Report). Not according to some forum post.

You can find it here https://www.europol.europa.eu/conten...nd-report-2015

Stats are on page 40.

I have not read the whole koran but I have read parts and I have muslim friends who are to my knowledge pretty good at explaining it. The problem with Islam is not that the religion tells you to commit murder, its because it has so many verses and people tend to only read and interpret selected parts of them.

Oh and by the way...your telepgraph link doesnt work.

[En.]

I would suggest you read up about communism, the main atheistic ideology, and probably the deadliest one so far

Communism is not an atheistic ideology nor is it the main one. Take into account that not only did the U.S. founding fathers leave Britain to escape the theocratic oppression but that they were also atheists.

Wow! Never thought I would read this type of fb bullshit on sz.

Read the koran is my advise. Its pretty interesting even for an atheist.

What makes you think I haven't? What makes you think I wasn't a Muslim?

[Lucky Strike]

What makes you think I haven't? What makes you think I wasn't a Muslim? I have and I was.

The fact that you say following islam makes you a terrorist. Thats what makes me think you havent read it.

[bukka]

Worst thread on SZ at the moment. Congratulations.

[BSR]

Worst thread on SZ at the moment. Congratulations.

This.
And i am sorry to say it is here that i read the stupidest things about the events (social networks included)

[galia]

I agree, although FB has also been pretty aggravating, what with all the pontifying atheists + conspiracy theorists coming out of the leather-clad woods

I regret commenting, but I'll leave it in because it's already been quoted and answered with bullshit so I'll just leave it at that and think about my fellow Parisians who are mourning and in shock

[zamb]

I am not going to get into the Atheism vs Theism discussion.
What happened was a sad, evil and despicable act, carried out by a set of people who have no respect or regard for human life. I don't think for a minute those people cared as to whether the people they murdered were theist, atheist or somewhere in between. All they cared about was filling their lust and thirst for blood in the name of whatever sick justification they have for what they did.

Something I have always understood that has guided me in my understanding of life is that there is an aspect of mankind that thirsts to destroy himself and his neighbor. This way of being is beyond my understanding, but I am sure it exist. Some carry this out in the name of religion, some carry it out in the name of atheism, some carry it out through some petty slight, grudge or victim mentality that is used to give reasons for these kind of acts.......... it happens.

More than a world without religion or some other ideology, I long to see a world free or the kind of weapons and capabilities that allows for those who have a passion for evil to carry out the kind of mass destruction of lives that has become so commonplace in our society.
We cannot stop evil men, as we kill and imprison the ones that exist, more are born. However, we sure as hell can limit their capacity for destruction. I wish governments and people would give some thought to that too in the discussion.

I am a believer in God, and one of the reason I continue to believe is that while we work to solve problems and make the word a better Place, I have hope that there is DIVINE JUSTICE, that people like these will suffer the consequences of their action because death is too easy an out for them.

BTW, Galia and BSR. I am glad you both are OK, I had inquired with Fuuma of you both along with a few others. While I mourn I feel better that people i know personally are fine.