Current Events

[Faust]

I agree, although FB has also been pretty aggravating, what with all the pontifying atheists + conspiracy theorists coming out of the leather-clad woods

I regret commenting, but I'll leave it in because it's already been quoted and answered with bullshit so I'll just leave it at that and think about my fellow Parisians who are mourning and in shock

Pray for peace. That will certainly work.

Zam, I am afraid the terrorists did this in the name of divine justice.

[zamb]

Pray for peace. That will certainly work.

Zam, I am afraid the terrorists did this in the name of divine justice.

Indeed,
but Mercy is a part of Justice, forgiveness is a part of Justice. Loving your neighbor as yourself is central to justice. why not those things?

Isn't God who is all powerful, capable to executing judgement by himself?

As I said before. Mankind has a passion for destruction of himself and others. Whenever people want to do evil, they will find all kinds of reasons why they should. the banner of religion is just one of the reasons. greed, grudge, jealousy, racism, feminism, atheism etc.....

All of these things have been used to justify wickedness. if we eliminate religion, then people will find another way to destroy.

[galia]

But explaining to mourners why they shouldn't pray, that will change the fucking world. congratulations

[HugAndWug]

But explaining to mourners why they shouldn't pray, that will change the fucking world. congratulations

If I can't use a terrorist attack to feel morally superior than other people what's the point of even having them???

[Faust]

But explaining to mourners why they shouldn't pray, that will change the fucking world. congratulations

Does praying make you feel better? Is it therapeutic?

[En.]

But explaining to mourners why they shouldn't pray, that will change the fucking world. congratulations

It'd be a start. Waste less time praying on what has already happened and more time taking action to stop what could/would happen.

If I can't use a terrorist attack to feel morally superior than other people what's the point of even having them???

This has nothing to do with feeling morally superior.

[zamb]

It'd be a start. Waste less time praying on what has already happened and more time taking action to stop what could/would happen.
.

Do you think we can stop people from doing Evil?

[En.]

Do you think we can stop people from doing Evil?

No, but we could stop people from all this wrongdoing due to religion.

[zamb]

No, but we could stop people from all this wrongdoing due to religion.

This is completely ridiculous thinking. there is NO WAY of stopping people from being religious. None. there is also no way of stopping people from doing Evil when they want to carry it out.

I have said before and I will say again to you. Evil exist and people will find all kind of banner to justify their destructive actions and their passion to destroy others. If not religion, then something else.
Some do it through racism, some do it through classism, some do it through religion, some through atheism, others through gender bias, homophobia and whatever other justification they can find.

The only thing we can do is to create laws and enforce them to punish those who would do evil. It acts as a deterrent to those who would follow after them.
We can try to address and eliminate the incentives people have to do evil rather than good and we can also get rid of a lot of these destructive weapons we have created that people can use to quickly murder dozens and even thousands of people.

I personally would like to hear your suggestions as to how we solve these problems. I have mine, but most think its stupid and foolish and will also hate it because it involves religion which has become a subject of hate in the world now. the very thing you are advocating to get rid of.

[deadboy]

To clarify my earlier comments: they were centred around timing, and people's initial responses to a tragedy. Of course there's reason for debate afterward, whether you think that debate should be about religion, refugees, borders, gun control or whatever. But I was amazed to see how many people were lobbing comments back and forth on social media as if there wasn't a still unknown and rising death toll.

Anyway, with respect to where the conversation has gone, most everything I'd say has been said. But whoever brought up the U.S. founding fathers... I'm an atheist, but I wouldn't use a bunch of slave owners who sought to exterminate another people as my model for the potential of non-religiosity.

[Nickefuge]

RE: Isis, Islam, reactions to Paris

[MJRH]

Does praying make you feel better? Is it therapeutic?

As someone who used to pray to a specific god: yes, it's therapeutic, but it's more than just giving yourself a back rub. I seem to recall Huck Finn saying you can't pray a lie, which is partly true although perhaps it says more to Huck's credit than to prayer's.

Religion makes good people better and bad people worse. Given a text as heterogeneous as the bible, nasty motherfuckers will always focus on shit like divine retribution, hellfire, and the conversion of infidels and the more well-adjusted among us will have fun with Song of Songs and the words in red. The problem is the influence exerted by the former often exceeds that of the latter. Oh well.

[zamb]

It is faith that makes prayer relevant. For what is the purpose of prayer if it is not directed towards an object of faith?
For those who pray, it has to stem from a foundation of believing in a God who cares about human affairs, and not only care, but is in complete control of the kind of power that is necessary to bring about His will and the petitions of the person praying.

Being religious is not a simple matter, and I as a religious man is one of the first to admit that here are indeed a lot of stupid things and dangerous things that are held as valid by many religious people and the problem is that too many people are not real seekers of truth nor do they take the time to work out the logical conclusions of certain views they hold. When this happens people blindly carry out actions that are based on faulty ideas, much to the detriment of themselves and others.

On the other side of the spectrum, our entire world and Civilization, for all of its imperfections, is build with religious life and values being at its center. I doubt any one of us can imagine a world or would even want to exist in one where there is no freedom of religion. such a world is bound to be one that is filled with tyranny and oppression. Even those who cry for such things, would certainly not like it if they were granted such a desire.......

[En.]

I have said before and I will say again to you. Evil exist and people will find all kind of banner to justify their destructive actions and their passion to destroy others. If not religion, then something else. Some do it through racism, some do it through classism, some do it through religion, some through atheism, others through gender bias, homophobia and whatever other justification they can find.

I'm not denying that people will find other reasons to justify their wrongdoings. The common atrocities affecting the world are rooted in religion, and in the case of warfare, Islam. The Abrahamic religions condone slavery, racism, sexism, homophobia, indoctrination, eternal damnation, incest by certain biblical figures, and pedophilia regarding Muhammad and Aisha. There's even a conflict between Muslims through the differences in Shia's and Sunni's. Those same justifications will be at a lesser extent without religion instigating it all. Science and mathematics should be of the utmost importance in society.

We can try to address and eliminate the incentives people have to do evil rather than good and we can also get rid of a lot of these destructive weapons we have created that people can use to quickly murder dozens and even thousands of people.

I agree. The systematic hiveminds are a great issue that need to be resolved. The US's ridiculous government being responsible for nearly everything wrong in the country is a prime example of that.

But whoever brought up the U.S. founding fathers... I'm an atheist, but I wouldn't use a bunch of slave owners who sought to exterminate another people as my model for the potential of non-religiosity.

The issue of slavery and exterminating of Indians is a different topic. Benjamin Franklin condemned the extermination and became an early abolitionist. Neither of the two completely undermine the Founding Fathers. They should still be lauded for everything they've accomplished, especially Franklin.

[zamb]

I will expand on this tomorrow.
I have never seen or known of a destructive weapon made by anyone religious in the name or effort of worshipping a god.
I highly doubt the technology used to make the most devastating and destructive bombs were made by people intent on using them for religious purposes.

Where was the restraint, cautiousness and purity of intent by our scientists and mathematicians to use their knowledge to perpetuate life and bring about harmony rather than so much weapons were we now have enough to obliterate our entire human population?

I am certain none of the weapons used by religious extremists were invented by them...and many who are supplying them these destructive devices know fully well their end purposes.

We might want to spend some time considering those aspects of the problem too