Randomness

[theconsumer]

@casem

Capitalism may mean two very different things: bottom-up capitalism (as in network of small businesses) and top-down state capitalism as in corporations. Think Geoffrey B. Small and supporting businesses vs Prada.

Of course the official truth (which almost everyone believes in) is that both are the same system and that the interests of corporate oligarchy are the interests of employees and small businesses. This is just the same crap as Soviet/communist propaganda that the Party represents the people and that the Central Comitee deserves privileges because of their contributions.

I will stop before I start comparing USA, China, corporations and USSR because there are just too many interesting similarities here ... ;)

[ImaPro]

i'll tell u something else about youth today. i think they are being damaged by this lifestyle of constant stimulation to the reward center of their brain. every fucking tweet, facebook post, every time they change the channel, or jerk it to some internet porn or kill someone on black ops is a stimulation to their reward center of the brain and it is all SELFISH. self oriented. it is literally all about ME. and that is fast, rewarding and highly addicitive. why bother developing an appreciation for elders and a deeper understanding of what is truly rewarding when i can call my teacher a dick, tweet about it, and have 50 people tell me i'm awesome in about 5 seconds and then feel great about myself? and this is all a PRODUCT. to make money. twitter, facebook, mtv fuckin jersey shore 16 and pregnant fucks.

these fuckin kids with their mtv. haha i'm old.

I'm going to start by saying that I'm young (<18) and I completely agree with this.
One of the things that makes it easy for all this to happen is that not even parents are aloud to punish their kids. Im not saying every punishment should be physical but once in a while some kids need to shut the fuck up and take a beating (well not this serious but you get my point). Another thing is that both parents work and most kids just sit at home watching tv with the mentally of "fuck bitches get money" and those fucktards from jersey shore.

[ImaPro]

@ whoever was discussing wages
One of the things I've learned trough my family's business is that no matter how a good boss/person you are most employees are going to screw you over whenever they get the chance. There isnt any pride on the work anymore. Guess what if actually worked hard instead of not giving a shit we might eventually get more money and you will get a raise .

/1/2 sleep rant

[CUTUP]

Blaming the world's problems on technology and kids these days being distracted by all their new flim flam is such incredible bullshit. The most dangerous lie too many Americans believe is 1. that poor people are poor because they're lazy (and therefore also not deserving of basic human services like health care) and 2. that rich people some how deserve their wealth. Capitalism rewards almost exclusively bad behavior and many wealthy people do a lot less work and a lot less good for society than people who put rivets in cars all day. The rich get rich off the backs of those laborers, so lets try not to be so condescending toward factory workers.

not sure if this is directed at me but i didn't say or imply any of that. in many respects i said quite the opposite.

I think thats directed at me cjbreed ^

Casey, this is what I said

What I dont agree with is a job that a monkey could do ( ie slapping rivets in car doors, pressing a button all day on a single machine), and the employees dont seem greatfull to be paid what they are when they are paid well.

I am by no means knocking people who work doing factory jobs, nor am I discounting their intelligence. I know of many smart people working jobs such as this.

If you work hard and are greatfull for your job ( especially if you are paid well) then thats all that matters to me

And it was in regards to greed. If you have a job were you can be easily replaced, and doesnt require a huge deal of skill, you should be greatfull you are paid so well ( ie union wages)

This goes back to the current conversation about entitlement, and I feel as though many union workers( and many workers in general) feel they are entitled to big wages regardless of how skilled their jobs might be. It is not bemoaning all factory workers as a whole, but those who make excellent money for unskilled labor and continue to bitch

I work on site almost all day, I get my hands dirty and do rough work for %90 of my job, so this is not a case of me trying to act as thoguh I am above labourers. And I know how well people are paid at Ford and the like because my grandfather worked there for 50 years. The stories he told me of the complete and utter slackasses made me sick, and it wasnt stories solely from him, but from many others involved in the auto industry and the construction industry.

To echo your own point, people are being rewarded for doing the wrong things. Hard work and attempting to excel dont get as recognized as ass kissing and towing the company line. People expect to keep getting raises and promotions solely because they have been working at the company for so long

What I have a gripe with is the sense of entitlement that many of the unskilled labourors ( and people in general) have , and how they refuse to try and excel. It is always a case of doing the bare minimum, and then expecting a raise/promotion solely because you are doing what you are paid to do anyways

[casem]

Well, I don't come from a family of factory workers, but being from the midwest I have several friends that do. I'll agree that there is greed and corruption in unions, but I still think they are absolutely necessary. Yes, we could cut out the middle man if the govt. would do its job and demand that corporations give employees a livable wage, health care, time off and satisfying work but it doesn't look like that will happen anytime soon.

The erosion of the power of unions has a lot to do with the increasing income disparity that is killing the economy. Yes, I know some factory workers can make a decent income, but the work is mind numbing, can lead to poor health, and in most factory towns working at the factory is just about the only option giving the factory a huge amount of power and influence over the town. This kind of job (one that provides a liveable wage and security) is becoming increasingly scarce, leaving people in these towns to work for less and less as they have no leverage from the government to stand up to the corporations. Jobs leaving the U.S. isn't due to factory workers greed, but company boss's and govt. greed in creating trade deals where companies can pander to the lowest common denominator to increase the bottom line.

For once Zamb and I are on the same page here! I know that no system is perfect, but free market capitalism is clearly a huge failure and until American's grasp that, we will continue to teeter on a precipice. One solution is similar to Zamb's business outlook, keep things small, keep everyone invested in the work they do and compensate equally. Enough of this hierarchical top down bullshit.

Given the bleak outlook in following the traditional story of the American dream, I'm actually encouraged by younger generations attitudes. I hope we are only at the beginning of the subversive power of the internet (decentralized power, wiki leaks etc.). Young people are on to this, and maybe turning inward toward themselves and communicating with each other is a sign that what they see on the outside isn't worth paying attention to. I know that myself and most of my friends refuse to work a regular job for someone else and this is a hopeful sign for me. Yea we're poor now, but I think this attitude will lead to a more satisfying life.

Doesn't every older generations complain about the deteriorating culture of the younger one? I don't think Lady Gaga is any dumber than Elvis. Pop culture is always dumb, but it's a form of collective knowledge and identity building at a young stage in life.

Unfortunately, I think things need to get worse economically before there will be a real systemic change, as right now people are hanging on by just enough thread to keep them largely complacent. But at least these few years of a shitty economy has some people questioning what they really value in a meaningful way.

[Faust]

I agree that the unions are more necessary than ever. Simple fact is that US companies today have returned to the precrash profitability levels, while unemployment is at 10%. How did they do it? Quite simply - those who did not need to fire workers fired them anyway and redistributed their load among those they left, knowing that those won't grumble thinking that they are lucky enough to have a job. This capitalist greed sickens me.

There is a reason why workers grumble that they never get enough - that's because they don't get enough. How many studies that prove that income inequality has been steadily increasing since Reagan's time do we need for people to start listening? 1% at the top of this nation take in more money than the bottom 90%. A company CEO used to make 50 times of what an average worker made at the same company, today it's 1,100 times that. These are statistics. Stop trying to punish the wrong people!

And there is a simple reason why everyone should get a raise every year - it's called inflation. Anyone who has taken an economics course in college knows this. Real wages (those pegged to inflation) have been falling across the nation for number of years - most people are getting poorer because their salary raises are not keeping up with inflation.

[cjbreed]

I think thats directed at me cjbreed ^

Casey, this is what I said...

see? see how self obsessed i've become?!?

[sam_tem]

The erosion of the power of unions has a lot to do with the increasing income disparity that is killing the economy. Yes, I know some factory workers can make a decent income, but the work is mind numbing, can lead to poor health, and in most factory towns working at the factory is just about the only option giving the factory a huge amount of power and influence over the town. This kind of job (one that provides a liveable wage and security) is becoming increasingly scarce, leaving people in these towns to work for less and less as they have no leverage from the government to stand up to the corporations. Jobs leaving the U.S. isn't due to factory workers greed, but company boss's and govt. greed in creating trade deals where companies can pander to the lowest common denominator to increase the bottom line.

unions certainly had their day, but there's no shortage of quality jobs in the US with healthy benefit packages in today's times (it's just that americans don't like math and science so they all go to immigrants) and the issue we have now is that the private flexible labor market is paying the bills to support a socialized gov't work force. it's a setting for great resentment as it should be. i don't live in NYC but surely you guys have seen all the commotion about sanitation workers calling in sick during the storm which impacted lives by ambulances not being able to get to the hospitals/neighborhoods in time to save some lives. that's an example of union specific issues.

i feel you guys in the north probably have a cozier feeling about unions than i do though because they are very rare here in the south for good reason, we have a vast supply of unskilled workers. anyone see the irony in a non-union auto worker/taxpayer in the south having to support the pensioned union jobs in the north? one of the issues i have with unions though is that they distort the basic supply and demand structure of the labor market which is not good for anyone or especially a free economy. you can't have people earning middle class wages on unskilled labor since the net result is lost productivity on a national/global scale and people have to accept this so they will be motivated to get a better education as a rich/expensive economy like ours must be able to provide a higher value than others and this can only be accomplished with a highly educated workforce. but again, there's no shortage of unemployed folks and you're going to have a hard time convincing me that one person should have a decent paying job with a union while someone else willing to work harder sits there unemployed when both of them could be employed with a modest/low wage (see my previous rant about globalization having a higher moral standing).

what we have to remember is that american companies don't just operate here in the states, they're multinational companies in very competitive markets fighting against other multinational companies. In order to accomplish this though, they can't have a balance sheet full of bloated american salaries and then expect to be able to sell a car in asia or south america at a price low enough to compete, but high enough to generate profit margins to keep the business running. what you end up with is a dying company that will slowly shed jobs and become fully reliant on the domestic market (which means bankruptcy in this era and no jobs for anyone) or just get bought out by a foreign company that will have access to cheap labor. these are the types of issues that unions have a difficult time accepting along with how to do business in an environment full of global imbalances.

you really have to sit down and look at everything we don't like and decide what we can fix and what should be left alone as simply putting our hand in the pot with anything we don't like has some big risks and some potentially devastating effects.


edit: and not trying to reply to you Faust as i think everything you're after could be accomplished with a refined tax code and it's better to not be left in the hands of inflexible/selfish unions.

2nd edit: also, you NYC folks could read this: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...e-states/8330/
if you like unions i hope you like paying other people's pensions.

[kunk75]

my puppy is 7 hrs away by car, will be an excellent morning for the kids

[Shucks]

mmm... chicken wings...



click image for more people of walmart fun...

[Fade to Black]

the best was the girl that had breasts...on her back.

[Emel]

My buy have finaly been handed over to the airline after 10 (10!) f'nin days at the air transit center in Singapore!
Oh happy day!

[lowrey]

hilarious

[BECOMING-INTENSE]

Hmmmm. What is she trying to imply ...

[thehouseofdis]

Essential for watching films by these directors.