Randomness

[Servo2000]

The increasing use of SWAT teams in these situations is completely psychotic - whatever happened to SWAT teams being the last resort? More and more it seems that they're the go-to instead. A friend who studies these incidents closely was telling me that it's a way for police departments to have / justify larger budgets (this I have not verified on my own). At least they knocked - the most terrifying thing to me is the prevalence of No Knock Warrants which should just simply be illegal considering the rampant abuse* and that they're basically unconstitutional. This, CATO's 'raid map' is the most terrifying thing I've seen.

[whitney]

in America it's always about using the last resort first if that means people get to profit more outta it

instead of a few bucks in preventative care
spend a few thou on saving a life hanging by

instead of solving the problem at it's root
wait till it explodes and send in the swat


I'm kinda sick of the nice guy lines from certain pple; socially awkward/shy/already played the whole scenario inside your head instead of trying it =/= nice.

[jogu]

cops line up the warrants and then screw it up by busting into the wrong house unannounced and kill innocent people. i'm sure this guy had them square in his line of sight and never popped off a shot but since cops have the right to shoot to kill the second they see a gun just like the homeowner does, they didn't hesitate. doesn't matter if he realized they were police or not, swat teams are trained to protect themselves and wouldn't have given him time to react.

i can tell by how ur reacting that u want so badly to paint a picture of police as a menace just barging in wherever they want and screaming "take no prisonerrrrrrrrs ! " . how are you so sure that guy never got a round off ? and law enforcement wont just engage the second they see a firearm . that aint how it works , when confronted they will tell you to disarm and if you dont and instead take some other action then yup they will engage and that is the appropriate thing to do in that situation . obviously the dept had evidence to highly suggest the need for a tac team and apparently they found body armor and assault firearms . if that shits true ( cant trust anythin in the media so who knows if its true or not ) why would he need that kinda stuff ?

cops fucked up big time, no question about it, and an innocent person paid with his life. the paper trail of a cover up afterwards is whats really scary.

u make alot of fuckin assumptions and believe them to factful without knowin all the info 1st

its fuckin sad to me when i hear things bout how much hate and bad info ppl have for our law enforcement , ohhh but soon as someone needs help its all omggg call the cops ! ya fuckin call em when u need them and expect them to rescue someones ass but at the same time hate them when u dont need them cos u kno theyre just out for $$$

[Servo2000]

There's a difference between para-military style home invasion and the police I'm going to call when somebody breaks into my house. I can be terrified of one and still have a begrudging albeit extremely tempered respect for the other.

[sam_tem]

jogu, all anyone is talking about is assumptions at this point and that's the big issue here. this isn't about disrespecting law enforcement; it's asking them to act responsible, follow the laws in place and be sensitive to the fact of how they perform their job since they carry guns. again, where's the evidence, if you can't answer that then why is a man dead? i take state-sanctioned murder (until proven guilty that's all this is right now) very seriously due to guilt by association and why i raise the question as to whether it's necessary for this kind of thing to be happening over weed.

i can assure you most ex-marines in this country have a safe full of firearms in their closet, every single one i know does. my family does and they weren't even in the army. body armor is weird but people collect all kinds of things and that's their right in this country.

perhaps it's a string of high-profile screw-ups over recent years where i live and the obvious lack of honesty present in those cases, but just like i have to answer for screw-ups in my job and be held responsible, so should the police. i ask you, without criticism how do you expect to prevent these situations from happening again? criticism is not disrespect. if he is innocent it wouldn't be the first and one is already too many.

[jogu]

sup last post im gonna make re: this story cos theres not much else for me to say bout it . for one i only used the herb reference to make a pt which is if a tac team was called in then its pretty probable whatever drug bullshet was bein investigated wasnt just some small time weed to relax . maybe u didnt kno but an areas swat is composed of its own police members , they volunteer and have to try out to make the team . it also requires usin up resources to put the team together short notice , 911 dispatch will call em up at any hour and u get dressed fast and go so it aint just somethin u send out for any ol problem

this isn't about disrespecting law enforcement; it's asking them to act responsible, follow the laws in place and be sensitive to the fact of how they perform their job since they carry guns...
i can assure you most ex-marines in this country have a safe full of firearms in their closet, every single one i know does. my family does and they weren't even in the army. body armor is weird but people collect all kinds of things and that's their right in this country.

mannnnn if that guy has a goddam team with shields and firearms starin at him and hes also armed and hes fuckin told to disarm he better do it . thats the bottom godfuckindam line . drop the firearm put ur goddam hands up . do that and u wont have lead rained on ur ass . what fuckin laws are u talkin bout regardin the procedures durin this kinda situation ?

and nahhh u cannot assure me most xmarines have a cabinet full of carbines , sidearms etc . just cos every single marine u kno does dont make it universal to all

[theetruscan]

I find myself in complete agreement with sam_tem, which I (still somehow) find surprising.

Jogu, for me at least, the issue isn't this case, or another case. Because, in any one case, there could be too much going on for me to have a good idea of what happened.

The issue is that, since I was a child, the prevalence of these kinds of events, and police uses of force in general, has increased dramatically*. It seems as though the approach is shifting much more towards coming out with guns/tasers/whatevertheyhave drawn, planning to fire, rather than resorting to that after trying other tactics.

For me, at least, the presence of a police force that really SHOULD make you afraid for your life and safety is a problem. Don't misunderstand me please, I believe that police do a dangerous job, and have a right to use what force is necessary. I just feel like the necessary has fallen away in the last few decades, and it's "use what force is fun or convenient" at this point, and that is a worrying phenomenon.

* Note, I've only looked at a few studies on this, most of my impression is anecdotal.

[Lane]

i can tell by how ur reacting that u want so badly to paint a picture of police as a menace just barging in wherever they want and screaming "take no prisonerrrrrrrrs ! " . how are you so sure that guy never got a round off ? and law enforcement wont just engage the second they see a firearm . that aint how it works , when confronted they will tell you to disarm and if you dont and instead take some other action then yup they will engage and that is the appropriate thing to do in that situation . obviously the dept had evidence to highly suggest the need for a tac team and apparently they found body armor and assault firearms . if that shits true ( cant trust anythin in the media so who knows if its true or not ) why would he need that kinda stuff ?


u make alot of fuckin assumptions and believe them to factful without knowin all the info 1st

its fuckin sad to me when i hear things bout how much hate and bad info ppl have for our law enforcement , ohhh but soon as someone needs help its all omggg call the cops ! ya fuckin call em when u need them and expect them to rescue someones ass but at the same time hate them when u dont need them cos u kno theyre just out for $$$

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia

[endorphinz]

I'm extremely ambivalent on this subject because, as noted, the facts of individual situations are always unclear. However, one thing that isn't unclear is that streets of today are not the streets of yesterday. The increased prevalence of guns/weapons in the 'bad guys' hands has led to lower tolerance by forces of authority and hence the dramatic increase in unfortunate incidents.

[Servo2000]

The issue is that, since I was a child, the prevalence of these kinds of events, and police uses of force in general, has increased dramatically*.

Here's some non-anecdotal evidence:

The number of no-knock raids has increased from 3,000 in 1981 to more than 50,000 in 2005

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1129/p03s03-ussc.html

[TheNotoriousT]

One of the greatest ever has passed away far, far too early.
R.I.P.!

[Vanna]

I left DC, but this heat and humidity in NY feels like I'm back home. I can't deal.

[Vanna]

[Sombre]

I broke my ankle on Sunday. I'll be on crutches for 12 weeks. My summer plans are ruined, but that's not too bad. The worst part is being bedridden with nothing to do. I don't even want to go to the library for a good book because the crutches gave me blisters near the armpits.

[lowrey]

get better crutches man, without moving around you'll be bored to death