Vetements, formerly of Margiela

[newp]

If we start to pay attention to skin color at fashion shows (which I am all against) and call a fashion show with all-white cast racist now, how do we call a fashion show with all-black casting?

[Nickefuge]

how do we call a fashion show with all-black casting?

Non-existent?

[newp]

Non-existent?

It's arguable if one can call Kanye West's shows "fashion shows" but more or less they are.
Never paid any attention but I think there are designers using only black models for their lookbooks. And it doesn't matter in my opinion just like only white or asian etc. lookbooks as well.

Race shouldn't be a reason why designer makes a choice between models at all.

[Faust]

I think Vetements will be more youth oriented catering to the Instagram crowd/youth will Balenciaga being more mature and art oriented

I don't think so. I think Demna will do a Hedi at Balenciaga.

[zamb]

Non-existent?

Its not Non existent, albeit rare
I think YSL, the master,once had a show with all black Models. and always used them for his shows. Naomi Campbell was first casted in a show by YSL and not Alaia.

I think Alber Elbaz picked up on this from the master and used them very generously in his shows over the years at all brands where he worked.

I had promised myself to leave this one alone. but in a sense I think its fair that I make a comment.
I know Jason Campbell, the writer of the article. He is a follow Jamaican and a very good journalist, But I disagree with him here.
Whatever you think of Vetements and their design ideas, it is not the responsibility of a designer or a brand, to cast models for the sake of "diversity"
Yes racism exist in fashion, as in other areas of life, and it has to be tackled and has to be addressed, but the bigger problem here is not racism.
The bigger problem here is investing too much power and influence in this new brand that is only a few seasons old and expect them to become a voice for issues that needs to be tackled yes, but not in the manner we are trying to do here.

As a designer, I want no one buying from me because I am black. Buy my clothes because it fits your body, you like the ideas and they mean something to you.

If I were a Model, I don't want to just be thrown into a damn show to make up some politically correct quota.
If we want to be honest about it, a designer can be very racist and still cast black models. While there can be one who isnt that doesn't cast any.

If I am utilized in a project just because of my skin color or because someone wants to meet some politically correct criteria How them can i attribute my success to my gifts, my talents and my abilities.
Actually one of the problems killing fashion now is too much political correctness. People should have the right to be offensive......
Oh how I miss McQueen!

What kind of world do we want?
A bureaucratic or a meritocratic one?
I prefer the latter, even though I understand that there has to be a mix of both....

Many of these people who are complaining about lack of diversity on the runways need to shut up too.
How about them supporting black designers who have genuine talent and are not talentless hip hop artists and their friends?

If people of Color want to see better representation of blacks and other people of Color in fashion, we cannot continue to attack white designers to put models on the runway, that's just one part of the problem. support black designers and give them the kind of help necessary to be successful too and them we can talk........

AND LET ME PUT THIS HERE IN BOLD

Editors of BOF, I know you read here.....

if you want to address this issue why limit it only to Models?

There are other professionals working in fashion who are of Color who are overlooked because of their Color. It would be nice for one of your great investigative journalist to address that aspect of the issue too, rather than one that is so overt and obvious as models being in a show....
The foundation and inner structure of a building is as important as its facade......
.

[Faust]

I know Jason Campbell, the writer of the article. He is a follow Jamaican and a very good journalist, But I disagree with him here.

I disagree with you there

Agree on the rest. It's all simulacra and simulation anyway. I'm a total Baudrillard convert, haha.

I do think that one thing that's important is the type of image that's projected onto the minds of young people. So, in that sense, maybe for a young black girl somewhere to see an all white cast is limiting. Or not. I simply don't know.

[zamb]

I disagree with you there

Agree on the rest. It's all simulacra and simulation anyway. I'm a total Baudrillard convert, haha.

I do think that one thing that's important is the type of image that's projected onto the minds of young people. So, in that sense, maybe for a young black girl somewhere to see an all white cast is limiting. Or not. I simply don't know.

you are a journalist Sir, so you will judge writing from a different standard than mine....
But he had a forum called JC report, which in the early days along with a platform called flavorpill was one of the best places to know what was happening, who was coming up etc and he did some amazing work with that back in the late 90's and early 2000's


As for the image in minds.
this is why i say that the problem has to be tackled differently.
there has to be representation of blacks and people of color not just as stylist, hair stylist, make up artists etc.
there needs to be successful black designers too.....
and not just to fill a quota but because they are talented and good.

Let me be ballsy for a moment and say. I am one of the best there is in NY, and I do not get any support from them.
Not from these people complaining, not from the CFDA, not from any of these people talking about "diversity"
But they give it to their friends.
thanks God for SZ, and the stores who buy my work, for people like GBS and all the clients who buy.

I don't wanna turn this into some kinda complain fest, but if they want to see black models on the runway, work to see diversity on other areas of the industry and it will carry over into the casting.
that is a better approach than being mad at designers who don't cast black models

[Law]

How did 185 pound DHL t-shirt become fashions latest cult item:

The same could be said, contentiously, of Vetements DHL t shirts. Previously worn by workers on low wages, they’re now a fashion insider’s status marker, having been talked up, with zero irony, as a rebellious response to the corporate greed sucking the creativity out of fashion.

Full article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/fashion/shopping/how-did-a-185-dhl-t-shirt-become-fashions-latest-cult-item/

[Faust]

Dang, beat me to it - I'm writing something along those lines now.

Well, now that you all expressed your self-righteous indignation and can sleep well at night knowing that your moralizing has found an outlet, HOW ABOUT DISCUSSING VETEMENTS DESIGN AND ITS IMPACT ON THE FASHION ZEITGEIST? Or is actual thinking too hard?

[PurpleJesuss]

Some thoughts:


---> fashion becoming increasingly "cool", partly due to mainstream celebrity involvement.
---> further democratization of fashion
---> more people want to participate and join the conversation
---> people need "it" pieces to fit in and have a sense of belonging
---> vetements exploits their initial image of "the new margiela"
---> capitalize on it and cater a lot of the products to a younger, less informed consumer
---> create highly wearable and "ironic" garments. Logos are paramount.
---> both the fashion victim and the industry insider can relate

In that sense it's a model a lot of brands will be wanting to copy?
We'll see how well that balenciaga collection will sell......

[nvsnli]

A different kind of criticism. Valid point? Or unnecessarily inflammatory/baiting?

Whites-Only Policy at Vetements and Balenciaga:

http://www.businessoffashion.com/com...and-balenciaga

Companies should be able to use what models they want.
People are just too politically correct and whiny now days.

[casem]

I handled some pieces at DSM over the weekend, and I must say it's much more interesting in person. Of course all they hype pieces (logoed raincoats and sweatshirts) were already sold out, but the outerwear that was left was really cool. The clothes have some truly distorted silhouettes and construction that impressed me when I tried them on. I like the idea of constructing an attitude into the garment (creating a slouch, or a hunched shoulder etc) and I can see it executed in the garments. It struck me that this approach isn't that different from Hedi who takes recognizable items and cuts "cool" into them, whereas Vetements cuts a certain awkwardness into everyday garments.

One example is this trench, which has an inside belt that when tied actually creates the scrunching you see on the runway.

[Faust]

I agree that these are the pieces that make Vetements interesting. I don't care if they echo Margiela, actually, because Margiela has reserved this kind of stuff for the artisanal line, but they make it the center of their work. Well, were making it the center of their work. I hope that once the hype levels off, they stick to making stuff like that.

[Faust]

The Rise of the Fashion Hipster

[zamb]

Good read,

I have a few points i shall be coming back to later in the day