Incarnation

[Heirloom]

I think the best products are made when inspiration is taken from the furthest point away from the end product, not from a competing product in the same niche, aimed at the same market.

i hear ya!!!

[AKA*NYC]

I think the best products are made when inspiration is taken from the furthest point away from the end product, not from a competing product in the same niche, aimed at the same market.

hallelujah!!!

[Chinorlz]

That's indeed the bottom line. In this realm of design where the key thing is creativity, why would one even consider putting out a product so similar to something else already on the market even if it's a "classic" shape? Personally, I would want to stand out and create something unique versus (re)create something that I knew would draw parallels to something already out there.

That being said, Incarnation has some interesting jacket designs. I think he should actually put out some more super-pared down versions of his jackets as that would truly let the leather speak for itself.

[Dane]

I don't see anything wrong with releasing clothing that's "been done" or is currently on the market. Frankly, there's only so much you can do with a leather jacket...at this point in the game, we'd all be jumping down their throats for either looking like CCP, RO, or Julius...no matter what they do. If you go in the other extreme, the designs become unwearable and they'd be criticized for going too far.

I agree that knock-offs and blatant copies are uninspired, lazy, and sometimes even malicious, but we as consumers are only willing to go so far when it comes to trying new things, so the producers of these clothing lines are in a bind.

[Chinorlz]

I don't see anything wrong with releasing clothing that's "been done" or is currently on the market. Frankly, there's only so much you can do with a leather jacket...at this point in the game, we'd all be jumping down their throats for either looking like CCP, RO, or Julius...no matter what they do. If you go in the other extreme, the designs become unwearable and they'd be criticized for going too far.

I agree that knock-offs and blatant copies are uninspired, lazy, and sometimes even malicious, but we as consumers are only willing to go so far when it comes to trying new things, so the producers of these clothing lines are in a bind.

To a certain extent I can agree with you that there are quite a lot of iterations out there and parallels can be drawn between the leathers from different designers. At the same time, to put out a jacket that one would very likely know would be called out as being extremely similar to an existing "flagship" jacket from another designer in your same niche I would not consider a good move for a design house that (I assume) would like to create its own look and feel.

[zamb]

I don't really like to get myself in those discussions, but lets be serious about this

this is Carols jacket period.

there may be many jackets and this may be a "classic" cut, but what Carol has done, with so many other classic designs, is tweak it enough and add enough signature elements, to give it an identity that is uniquely his.......and no one can or should dispute that.

as designers we all draw some kind of reference from each other, but designers should DESIGN, which means coming up with new and better stuff.......not your own "version" of something that already exist in the market that can be easily identified as a copy of something.

and the argument about "just so much you can do with leather", or whatever is just crazy............there are endless possibilities and ideas that can be explored within the limitations of the anatomy or a particular aesthetic, i.e. minimalism, or whatever......

Challenge yourself, experiment, take risks........

I think the problem is some of us has just gotten too comfortable, and taking it too easy, instead of busting our butts and brains to offer something new an interesting to clients who are spending a lot of money to keep us in business.

I will ask one question, an those who wish to answer honestly can do so...

Lets say of the two jackets, both are very close in price point and such, and you are looking for a jacket of similar style which would you get?


designers should work to give customers choices, not more of the same.......

[Dane]

^ maybe that's the problem though...one is significantly more expensive than the other. A dirty move by Incarnation, but as much as I hate to think these companies are only out for money, that's what it's all about. Especially since (I'm guessing) Japan is a big market for them, a portion of the consumers there care more about "having the look" than who's idea it originally was (a total stereotype on my part, but not untrue).

Chinorlz - I do agree that this wasn't a clever move in many regards. By doing this, he's alienated himself from potential customers. Having said that, he'll still sell...so I wonder if he cares?

[kunk75]

^to that end, I wonder how many people not on SZ give a shit at all. I mean, I see tons of people who wear that diesel black gold shit and I'll bet neither them nor rosso give a shit that it's a cheap hybrid of many of the designers we like.

[Dane]

^to that end, I wonder how many people not on SZ give a shit at all. I mean, I see tons of people who wear that diesel black gold shit and I'll bet neither them nor rosso give a shit that it's a cheap hybrid of many of the designers we like.

I imagine none of them have any idea there is a similarity...or for that matter, who CCP even is. Even if they did, they don't care...they just want leather steeze.

[hallucination]

same market

You mean.. market for frogs that resides in the well..?

[asecretmaker]

i guess Keita Ogawa didn't know carol had used that design before. check the pics below, he just replaced buttons with hooks and removed the breast pocket.

[michael_kard]

Just because the Diesel customer doesn't care that does not mean you shouldn't. It's called standards.

[Faust]

i guess Keita Ogawa didn't know carol had used that design before. check the pics below, he just replaced buttons with hooks and removed the breast pocket.

Come on.

[Chinorlz]

^ maybe that's the problem though...one is significantly more expensive than the other. A dirty move by Incarnation, but as much as I hate to think these companies are only out for money, that's what it's all about. Especially since (I'm guessing) Japan is a big market for them, a portion of the consumers there care more about "having the look" than who's idea it originally was (a total stereotype on my part, but not untrue).

Chinorlz - I do agree that this wasn't a clever move in many regards. By doing this, he's alienated himself from potential customers. Having said that, he'll still sell...so I wonder if he cares?

It all depends on what the drive and motivations of a designer/design house are. If its pure money (diesel black gold etc.) then they certainly don't care and it's all about the green. Personally I feel like having artistic integrity and individual creativity does not mean that you have to compromise your product. Create something good and people will take notice and in turn, open their wallets. The adage of "if you build it, they will come" IMO rings true in so many realms and has proved itself over and over again.

In an age where integrity has become a rarity, situations of design hijacking/reappropriation are sadly the norm.

[SHYE_POSER]

I don't really like to get myself in those discussions, but lets be serious about this

this is Carols jacket period.

there may be many jackets and this may be a "classic" cut, but what Carol has done, with so many other classic designs, is tweak it enough and add enough signature elements, to give it an identity that is uniquely his.......and no one can or should dispute that.

as designers we all draw some kind of reference from each other, but designers should DESIGN, which means coming up with new and better stuff.......not your own "version" of something that already exist in the market that can be easily identified as a copy of something.

and the argument about "just so much you can do with leather", or whatever is just crazy............there are endless possibilities and ideas that can be explored within the limitations of the anatomy or a particular aesthetic, i.e. minimalism, or whatever......

Challenge yourself, experiment, take risks........

I think the problem is some of us has just gotten too comfortable, and taking it too easy, instead of busting our butts and brains to offer something new an interesting to clients who are spending a lot of money to keep us in business.

I will ask one question, an those who wish to answer honestly can do so...

Lets say of the two jackets, both are very close in price point and such, and you are looking for a jacket of similar style which would you get?


designers should work to give customers choices, not more of the same.......

So what happens with the millions of suits produced by every man and his dog each season?