Incarnation

[Faust]

So what happens with the millions of suits produced by every man and his dog each season?

But isn't this the very difference between design and manufacture? Something is "designed" when the creator goes through a rigorous thought process.

[gavagai]

The CCP crowd: "IT'S A RIP-OFF" or "lets be real this is CCP'S jacket"

I'm crying foul here.

At least make an argument. The standards held by the garment industry, the legal system, as well as trade dress and copyright law wouldn't classify this as a knock-off.

Yes the jackets are similar but not remotely the same. There is a big difference.

Further, if you happen to be a known designer you really think it is a good idea to be on this forum calling another designers work a rip-off? I'm not sure that is a very good idea.

[Chinorlz]

The CCP crowd: "IT'S A RIP-OFF" or "lets be real this is CCP'S jacket"

I'm crying foul here.

At least make an argument. The standards held by the garment industry, the legal system, as well as trade dress and copyright law wouldn't classify this as a knock-off.

Yes the jackets are similar but not remotely the same. There is a big difference.

Further, if you happen to be a known designer you really think it is a good idea to be on this forum calling another designers work a rip-off? I'm not sure that is a very good idea.

The argument here is certainly not one of a legal one but more of a "designers should create something unto themselves" one.

If you were a creator/inventor of something (even outside of the realm of clothing), would you prefer to say design a car that you know would have parallels drawn to the distinct look of a Lamborghini or something that comes from your imagination that would have it's own distinct look?

The discussion is ultimately one of motivation.

[gavagai]

I agree, but calling this particular jacket a ripoff and questioning the authenticity of the designer without an actual analytical criticism seems to me a bit overboard. It isn't that clear cut.

[zamb]

The CCP crowd: "IT'S A RIP-OFF" or "lets be real this is CCP'S jacket"

I'm crying foul here.

At least make an argument. The standards held by the garment industry, the legal system, as well as trade dress and copyright law wouldn't classify this as a knock-off.

Yes the jackets are similar but not remotely the same. There is a big difference.

Further, if you happen to be a known designer you really think it is a good idea to be on this forum calling another designers work a rip-off? I'm not sure that is a very good idea.

Maybe this is aimed at me so let me answer it,
I have very much reluctance to often comment on other designers work in public, in part because i don't see them doing that with regards to mine.......and much as i can i try to be a fair person, and wouldn't want to do something to others that they do not do to me.......

that being said, as much as i am a designer, I am a student of this industry, and a consumer like you and others, and I don't think that because I am a designer it forbids me from stating my honest perspective on a particular subject.

I have no problem against referencing an idea from another designer, and anyone who tells you that they never have would be one of the biggest liars around.......that being said, we have a responsibility as designers, who are selling products for a lot of money to DESIGN, to create new, different and unusual stuff, stuff that os often unique and excessively OUR ideas, and whatever references we use from others should be done in such away as t o express a new and different possibility rather than something so close it looks like more of the same...........and if I may say so, one of the reasons why my company has gotten to where it is in the time frame that it has is because I make an effort to do these things......and we have been very successful in the category of pants in particular, where they are uniquely ours and not replicas of something else.......but I am going to stop now because this thread is not for this purpose......and i want to respect the company of which it is about

[SHYE_POSER]

But isn't this the very difference between design and manufacture? Something is "designed" when the creator goes through a rigorous thought process.

Ofcourse, but how rigorous can a process be, when you take something that has already been designed and add rusty hard wear?

I know what you are saying Faust, but it just annoys me that every time something pops up its a Carol rip etc etc etc.

I guess i get a bit annoyed with these comments amongst others
. Some people, after flicking through a few threads they think they now it all and all of a sudden everything is a copy of Rick or Carol.

If people actually done a bit more research they would see where the originals or "inspiration" has come from.
This constant thing of anatomical clothing...i mean clothes are supposed to fit the human body FFS! It may be absurd to say so, but if you want proper anatomical cutting and crazy patterns, you don't have to look any further than many big sports labels. (as usual i've gone on a tangent, apologies!)

[BSR]

shye, as far as i can tell from people's reactions on this thread, it's the less knowledgeable ones that contest the copying accusation (kunk excepted but he's in a different league)

[bonejelly]

My own discomfort comes from the fact that Carol's work is visible in several of the Incarnation preview pieces, not just the jacket in question (which is admittedly a 'classic' design, hardware aside).

At least those cut-off gloves don't have webbed fingers...

[fashiondisaster]

Ladies and gentleman ....
I think that is interesting to discuss about CCP in the thread dedicated to him. (Who copied from CCP or who CCP has copied etc etc )
In general on this topic, I think that a human reaction, for many, maybe, to "react'" to those who have the presumption to be original at all costs: this is not said by the creators, which by their nature are humble (or does not expose themselves so much), but from all their exalted followers / groupies
I think that the work of Incarnation is good (although, personally, is a bit far from my taste .. but this is personal), and gives some interesting sensations.
Just enough to see him and see his creations, it is evident that all of his own making.

[SHYE_POSER]

shye, as far as i can tell from people's reactions on this thread, it's the less knowledgeable ones that contest the copying accusation (kunk excepted but he's in a different league)

Besides the hardwear used for fastening, what else is there? The collars are different, and I have handled both pieces in question, and beyond that cannot find any similarities between them (also ur comment seemed quite underhand, god forbid we challenge the French on the matters concerning Poell :p)

[gavagai]

shye, as far as i can tell from people's reactions on this thread, it's the less knowledgeable ones that contest the copying accusation (kunk excepted but he's in a different league)

KUNK: "thank you. i know on sz popular perception is that ccp invented everything from farts to bottled water but that jacket is a pretty typical style for half a century"

BSR, the problem here is that you fail to make a clear case of what makes this a copy. Looking similar is hardly the gold standard.

You also NEVER actually reply to any of the substantive claims that people make regarding the differences of the two jackets.

Taking the additional step of supporting your claim by saying that people that disagree with you lack knowledge is laughable and fallacious.

[AKA*NYC]

[gavagai]

The only interesting about your post is that you and the rest of the CCP devotees keep reiterating the same thing. As if you believe that yelling just a wee bit louder makes you right.

It only makes you childish and shows your lack of intellect.

Whatever you do, don't under any means actually argue for your point. Just go find stupid fucking animal pictures on the internet that you think are cheeky and make the other sides point all the more relevant.

[AKA*NYC]

[gavagai]

Just to make sure we are all clear on what constitutes at the least a modicum of a copy:







The CCP shoe/boot is sick as hell. However, it clearly "rips off a specific design element that was created by someone else. I guess it just so happens that the design element has a United States Patent.