Bernhard Willhelm S/S 09

[Johnny]

Re: Bernhard Willhelm S/S 09



^^ slightly?.... This assumes thata certain amount of gay medeival fair would be acceptable!

I don't know fuuma, i don't feel angry about it, because it's very funny, but isn't this just so ridiculous as to be beyond any serious critisizm?the fact that someone's off with the history doesn't really change that.

[Chinorlz]

Re: Bernhard Willhelm S/S 09



If this were purely "art" then I would not have a problem.

As a line of clothing? No.

He could have made the most elaborate Victorian clothing and it still would have been predominantly unwearable in todays culture and society and thus as a brand and a line it serves no purpose and is thus irrelevant.

[Fuuma]

Re: Bernhard Willhelm S/S 09

[quote user="Chinorlz"]


If this were purely "art" then I would not have a problem.

As a line of clothing? No.

He could have made the most elaborate Victorian clothing and it still would have been predominantly unwearable in todays culture and society and thus as a brand and a line it serves no purpose and is thus irrelevant.

[/quote]

As I've told you it gets produced and sold every season, so it is, by definition, wearable. A garment is wearable when there's a group that buys and wears it. Which is why some couture pieces are sometimes accused of being unwearable by a regular woman (thinkOscar dresses)or something of that nature; in other words it is not unwearable for everyone as it still has a small audience. BW sells more than couture so for me the point is moot.

BTW you're purchasing leather jackets while living in Texas so I'll go ahead and assume wearability, at least for the mid-term (a few yrs!!), is only a small part of why you like and acquire clothing.

[Fuuma]

Re: Bernhard Willhelm S/S 09

[quote user="Johnny"]


^^ slightly?.... This assumes thata certain amount of gay medeival fair would be acceptable!

I don't know fuuma, i don't feel angry about it, because it's very funny, but isn't this just so ridiculous as to be beyond any serious critisizm?the fact that someone's off with the history doesn't really change that.

[/quote]

Bernard is obviously camp but there's a certain sincerity in how he sticks to his wacky ideas. Medieval references in clothes are a big no no as far as my wardrobe is concerned. I remember discussing this with Faust who liked an Attachement (?) coat that made him look like a monk and I think I answered I've never wear it for that very reason.

[noerml]

Re: Bernhard Willhelm S/S 09

[quote user="Fuuma"]

3) Anyone referring to this look as Louis XIV is a few hundred years off; the inspiration is obviously XVth century.

[/quote]

well personally i wouldn't say this is inspired by Lous XIV, even though i'd definately set it in the late baroque. But i doubt this matters a lot.


but the intersting aspect ist... that people once thought this kind of fashion was indeed not only wearable but the way to go. Admittedly Willhelm changed this a lot, and might have exaggerated the femine aspect a tack too much ... still I think you have to keep in mind that wearing a frock, heels, high stockings and
those ridicilous short puffy trousers was considered fashionable for a rather long period of time in human history.

And looking at those sneaker +jeans+sweatshirt combos you see on the streets I sincerely wonder what's preferable. true, fashion like that was never and still is not cheap, so the comparison is not the soundest one...

looking at the japanese market tho..., I see a lot.. well " a lot" of people who can actually pull this off. ( i am not going to dig into japanese
fashion subculture... no ty! *smirk*)



and as a matter of fact the CCP crooked stitching, dyed in horseshit leather jacket is certainly considered as an odd item for most of the populace as welll

[laika]

Re: Bernhard Willhelm S/S 09



Fuuma, your posts are blissfully logical and articulate. Thanks for setting the record straight, and thanks to wire.artist too.

Bernhard always seems to bring out the worst of SZ.... everything from latent homophobia to violent macho posturing. [79] No doubt he'd get a good laugh out of this thread if he saw it though, so i'll leave it at that.

[Johnny]

Re: Bernhard Willhelm S/S 09

where's the latent homophobia laika?

[mass]

Re: Bernhard Willhelm S/S 09

i can most certainly see a lot of people wearing and looking good in this... re If this were purely "art" then I would not have a problem. -- i think his whole point is he doesn't care whether or not you have a problem; not in the sense that taste is subjective, but he doesn't give a fuck and does what he wants. i feel staying true to your own vision as a designer is much more important than conforming with 'todays culture and society' or making clothes that everyone has made before. this collection obviously is not completely idiosyncratic but it is still very much bw.

[laika]

Re: Bernhard Willhelm S/S 09

johnny, it was in the f/w thread...."too gay"...."disgustingly homo-erotic".....that sort of thing. sorry i wasn't more specific.

[Johnny]

Re: Bernhard Willhelm S/S 09

fair enough. i did mention the g word myself, but in an entirely non-homphobic way [75]

[laika]

Re: Bernhard Willhelm S/S 09

^no, i got that...you were being descriptive rather than pejorative. i know there's a difference. [75]

[Chinorlz]

Re: Bernhard Willhelm S/S 09

[quote user="Fuuma"][quote user="Chinorlz"]


If this were purely "art" then I would not have a problem.

As a line of clothing? No.

He could have made the most elaborate Victorian clothing and it still would have been predominantly unwearable in todays culture and society and thus as a brand and a line it serves no purpose and is thus irrelevant.

[/quote]

As I've told you it gets produced and sold every season, so it is, by definition, wearable. A garment is wearable when there's a group that buys and wears it. Which is why some couture pieces are sometimes accused of being unwearable by a regular woman (thinkOscar dresses)or something of that nature; in other words it is not unwearable for everyone as it still has a small audience. BW sells more than couture so for me the point is moot.

BTW you're purchasing leather jackets while living in Texas so I'll go ahead and assume wearability, at least for the mid-term (a few yrs!!), is only a small part of why you like and acquire clothing.

[/quote]

Haha, it does get chillier during some parts of the year down here :) Just not... right now hahaha.

I can see the parallel that you make to the oscar gowns and such and I give BW credit for sending down the runway what he personally believes in.. but it does go to show that he is utterly out of touch with the general populace and fashion as a whole. As limited as they are, there are some constraints to clothing and acceptability and I don't see the BW collection in the same sense as say that crazy Thom Browne show not too long ago.

Granted, some nutters in Japan will buy and wear this in the Harajuku district but Japan consumed both poles of the fashion world. If it's horrific, shitty, ugly or absolutely amazing, Japan will buy it. From a financial standpoint it's good for BW, but in my mind it doesn't validate a brand when it's JUST huge in Japan (referring to the runway type pieces and not the sweatshirts etc.).

[laika]

Re: Bernhard Willhelm S/S 09



[quote user="mass"]i can most certainly see a lot of people wearing and looking good in this... re If this were purely "art" then I would not have a problem. -- i think his whole point is he doesn't care whether or not you have a problem; not in the sense that taste is subjective, but he doesn't give a fuck and does what he wants. i feel staying true to your own vision as a designer is much more important than conforming with 'todays culture and society' or making clothes that everyone has made before. this collection obviously is not completely idiosyncratic but it is still very much bw.[/quote]

I agree, especially with this.

I think it's his best men's collection in awhile....i love that bernhard always makes me laugh. [73] And it's great to see him really showing off his brilliant and intricate tailoring. My only criticism is that the inspiration, whatever it is, has been translated very literally into the clothes, so they really do look a bit "period." I would have actually preferred something more modern/eclectic.

[Faust]

Re: Bernhard Willhelm S/S 09

[quote user="Fuuma"]

It is fine to criticize someone?s work but when it is done from a position of ignorance, the audience has nothing to gain from such slap dash argumentation.

A few points to consider:

1) BW produces and sells what you see on the runway, he?s exceptionally consistent in that aspect; what you see in shows will make it to stores, the runway presentation isn?t just theatrics; contrary to the course of action a lot of designers who are too worried about the extremes they reach would take.

2) As alien as this collection may seem it successfully captures the feel of the season without being unduly indebted to it or compromising the designer?s vision; androgyny, layering, use of traditionally feminine fabrics are all there for an insightful viewer to see yet it is unmistakably Bernhard.

3) Anyone referring to this look as Louis XIV is a few hundred years off; the inspiration is obviously XVth century.

[/quote]

How much of it does he actually produce? A couple of dozen items for the freaks in Japan? I have never seen anything at Seven, besides a few sweatshirts. Rick produces crazy horsehair boots and high heels for men. How much does he actually sell of it, and how many jeans, leather jackets and tees does he sell?

[Faust]

Re: Bernhard Willhelm S/S 09



[quote user="mass"]i can most certainly see a lot of people wearing and looking good in this... re If this were purely "art" then I would not have a problem. -- i think his whole point is he doesn't care whether or not you have a problem; not in the sense that taste is subjective, but he doesn't give a fuck and does what he wants. i feel staying true to your own vision as a designer is much more important than conforming with 'todays culture and society' or making clothes that everyone has made before. this collection obviously is not completely idiosyncratic but it is still very much bw.[/quote]

The whole point is I (I will stick with "I" for this one) don't care if he cares if I have a problem with it. I am not here to persuade people to change their opinions, no matter how ridiculous they are. Willhelm produces nonsense for the sense of shock value - that is his raison d'etre, so to speak. Emperor's New Dress - season in, season out. I don't care if a thousand Harajuku freaks and Misshapes hipsters pining for attention wear it. Everyone has his audience.