Paying for Classifieds

[ComeUpon]

Maybe you're right that a subforum would be better than stickies--I'm going to defer to you on this, since you clearly have more experience running a forum than I do. Regardless of the way its done, though, I think it's important that there's a way for members to easily differentiate between those who are contributing members and those who are resellers. If a two-tier system is going to be put in place, it has to be clear that there is in fact a two-tier system.

The issue of whether or not people will actually come out and identify themselves as resellers is indeed a tricky one. However, from my recent observations of the classifieds forum, it looks like people have taken it upon themselves to start policing sellers. For better or worse, it seems like every other thread in the classifieds forum has someone calling another person out for certain improprieties, such as misrepresenting how much they payed for an item. The next step then, I think, is to take some sort of hard stand on the issue--this is why it's vital that there is some sort of unified perspective that guides decisions like this. If it's obvious to you (and maybe a larger group of senior forum members) that someone is reselling but shirking responsibility, then confront them. In the end, it'll probably come down to a value judgement, wherein you have to decide whether this person is going to considered a reseller or not. Then again, maybe if it's made clear that resellers will be welcomed here provided that they establish their business publicly, they'll be much more open in what they're doing? I'm not betting on it, but who knows.

Of course, this all assumes that the forum does in fact want to establish a two-tier system for sellers here on SZ. If not, well, something else is going to have to be done.

[HWith]

I see a problem about paying a percentage of the asking price before the item is sold, because what if the item is never actually sold? It may not be a crap listing or too expensive, you might just be unlucky and try to sell an item there's no buyer for at the moment. It happens a lot of times. Also, what about Interest Checks? They're pretty common, people want to see if there's any interest, do you have to pay for that as well?

[Faust]

It's all good Albert, but how do I get a black/dark gray PayPal link?! :)

[philip nod]

great idea.

Typing on an iPhone so a bit short...

A paypal link would be a great idea. People wanting to post should maybe do a 1% "donation" of their asking price prior to posting. If you don't pay, your posting will automatically be deleted.

This may become mostly self-regulating requiring only minimal work from the mods (spot checking etc). This allows everyone to give back to Sz and withthe volume of items being posted, even at 1% there can be good revenue generated to cover SZ maintenance costs and likely a bit more.

Posters in classifieds would just have to note their username in the paypal donation.

Excessive bumping etc would still of course be treated the same way.

Just a suggestion and seems like it would be fair to all parties involved without too much extra work for everyone.

:)

[philip nod]

I see a problem about paying a percentage of the asking price before the item is sold, because what if the item is never actually sold? It may not be a crap listing or too expensive, you might just be unlucky and try to sell an item there's no buyer for at the moment. It happens a lot of times. Also, what about Interest Checks? They're pretty common, people want to see if there's any interest, do you have to pay for that as well?

maybe it will deter people from putting up crap. or desaturate the classifieds. market has imploded. too many people selling the same things. makes sense this conversation is happening. I haven't bought anything off sz in 7-8 months? perhaps the IC category which seems to be code for "dope as fuck" could be turned into an auction type scenario, although that would never work.

[Canaduh0415]

"No such thing as a free lunch" 1% is a great idea, personally worth it for quality and esoteric nature(or so it once was) of goods being sold. SZ viewed as a community needs to have a source of income which the citizens should be happy to pay, and if only to create some income for themselves, WIN WIN?

[Chinorlz]

I see a problem about paying a percentage of the asking price before the item is sold, because what if the item is never actually sold? It may not be a crap listing or too expensive, you might just be unlucky and try to sell an item there's no buyer for at the moment. It happens a lot of times. Also, what about Interest Checks? They're pretty common, people want to see if there's any interest, do you have to pay for that as well?

I was thinking that it would be a one time donation. Reasonable bumping after that is at no cost. For interest checks the potential seller has a rough price in mind for which they can do the donation thing. Certainly things may not sell... But like pnids says, it would self-eliminate a lot of junk in classifieds. One would not post something unless they really wanted to sell it.

The system may not be perfect but the potential seller is in a great position... No massive cut like eBay and a really good opportunity to put pieces up exactly in the target market. 1% is a reasonable cost for this priviledge I think... That's just a Hamilton on a $1000 pair of boots. For what we all spend, that kind of fee is almost negligible but should serve to be enough to filter the classifieds while at the same time contributing to SZ as a whole. When we all contribute, the whole thing be becomes something that we all care about.

I think the 100 post rule should still apply as well as it keeps SZ relatively pure.

As for a monochromatic paypal logo... Nothing a little Photoshop can't do! It's just a clickable jpg in the end :)

A move like this for the classifieds really was a long time coming I think... In the end I think it will increase the quality of the classifieds and thus keep SZ great.

[MoFiya]

Huge effort. People will stop doing IC... Sale threads will decrease because people are going to think twice wether it is worth paying the 1% fee on that particular item.
Can only argument from my personal point of view. I'ld rather pay a donation than a fee every time I put up on of my small fs. threads.

[Chant]

People don't like too many stickies - we've learned that in the shopping thread and had to create a subforum for affiliates. Maybe a subforum for resellers wouldn't be a bad idea, but the point is I doubt anyone will come out and say, Ok, I am doing this to make money. People will dodge that responsibility.

I think the point is to view the resellers as not getting a free ride on SZ. Every business has costs, and that will be their cost.

It's very easy to know who are profesionnal resellers. Ask them to pay a fee, like the affiliated stores.
They don't want to pay ? Let them sell somewhere else.
And let the regular users sell for free.
I don't really care actually about the quality of the Classifieds.

[philip nod]

^if you were here in the early days when a pair of ccp derbys or a Rick leather would cause a minor meltdown for everybody, you might understand my point
and would you qualify as a professional reseller? seems to me that you would but I doubt you would define yourself as that -- so basically my larger point is that you have to have someone define your position which is a bad idea. 1% is nothing

[lowrey]

I think that whatever scheme we could come up with, it would be hard to manage and operate. the forum doesn't offer any good function for this, and I don't see it wise for SZ to invest in some software/tools to organize it either. SZ getting a cut of course sounds reasonable in theory, but for Faust to keep track of a zillion payments in a paypal account for these small fees sounds like a real pain in the arse, I really don't see this as a good option.

I think the only relatively easy way to go about this is to regulate the classifieds better. seems like the 100 post limit is not stopping everyone, and on the contrary, it generates unwanted speed posting. maybe it would simply require to close threads that clearly signal this sort of unwanted activity and ban users who only try to make profit out of the clasiffieds. its not like we have a ton of members like this, I think it could be controlled by simply keeping an eye out, by both Faust and I, as well as other members reporting these cases.

[Chinorlz]

I think that whatever scheme we could come up with, it would be hard to manage and operate. the forum doesn't offer any good function for this, and I don't see it wise for SZ to invest in some software/tools to organize it either. SZ getting a cut of course sounds reasonable in theory, but for Faust to keep track of a zillion payments in a paypal account for these small fees sounds like a real pain in the arse, I really don't see this as a good option.

I think the only relatively easy way to go about this is to regulate the classifieds better. seems like the 100 post limit is not stopping everyone, and on the contrary, it generates unwanted speed posting. maybe it would simply require to close threads that clearly signal this sort of unwanted activity and ban users who only try to make profit out of the clasiffieds. its not like we have a ton of members like this, I think it could be controlled by simply keeping an eye out, by both Faust and I, as well as other members reporting these cases.

Keeping an eye out in classifieds is pretty good. It works reasonably well right now too.

For the method that I was proposing, there isn't too much of a need to patrol that paypal account. It's in a way an honor system with the potential for spot checking. That plus the 100 post rule (which speed posters are easily caught) would seem to do the classifieds well. By no means is it perfect but seems to me the best option with minimal increase in time spent by the mods if some new rules were to implemented.

We got a good dialogue going here :)

[cjbreed]

lowrey and christian coming out with the common sense. totally agree with both.

how many professional re-sellers have we seen? not many. and on top of that, not everyone has a problem with the re-sellers. (christian does not qualify pnod. he has offered an ultracool proxy service a few times and was totally up front about it. it was a kind and helpful gesture imo)

classifieds are by definition free. any fee's will send the sales to sufu and ebay. a subforum for pro re-sellers is fine by me. i don't mind at all. its a good thing really. they provide a service for those that can't spend time navigating the world of Y! and it will keep spamming down.

re: donations. come up with the idea for improvement first and then ask for donations to raise the funds. if it is a good idea, you'll get the $$.

support the forum by supporting the affiliates and letting them know they got your business thru SZ. this is the model to follow. revenue comes from advertising...i think...

i do think faust should be somehow compensated for all this time and effort. the problem is how does that happen while still keeping to the standards of the forum and avoiding becoming another TFS. complete with advertising nightmares

[Who?]

With sellers like Nakata, they are not selling crap. Its all desirable goods from the brands we love (and for less than retail), I am sure many people here at SZ have benefited from his membership. Imposing a small fee on the users is fine but is not going to deter sellers from abusing the classified. The problem is with the unnecessary and aggravating process of dealing with people speed posting to use the classifieds and once they have the ability to use the classifieds abusing the privilege with tons of unnecessary bumping and posts to indicated that they have a wanted item. The structure needs to change, possibly adding the restriction of a 1 year of active membership to the 100 post count limit would eliminate the problem of speed posting, but it may just delay it. The moderation really just needs to step in and stop the needless bumping (maybe by completely eliminating the ability to bump threads in the classified) and holding sellers responsible for deleting threads once an item has sold or only allowing one active sales thread per member (and it must be paid for to active, one time fee). Sorry its been a long day so this may just be incoherent rambles.

[cjbreed]

its socialism!!!

just kiddin. its not.
just thought that was a funny picture.
carry on...