Paying for Classifieds

[Faust]

/\ These statistics are inaccurate. I have google analytics and it tells a very different story. These valuation websites are bullshit by and large.

[sansoda]

I think in the spirit that the Forums were started (from what I gathering reading all of the posts), charging 1% to cover costs, in addition Faust's time, is more than fair.

If it gives SZ the legs it needs for further longetivity, I say do it.

It is an awesome special place on the web.

[maldoror]

lol @ 4chan being the top sz destination site

[beardown]

In regard to the analytics chart, it seems to me like an apples/oranges comparison.
That's like trying to compare the amount of people who walk through H&M on Broadway daily to how many people go into Atelier daily.
SZ offers very specialized information. VERY specialized in the scheme of things.
That's one of the reasons it's so important.

And I think Faust does a wonderful job of downplaying the importance of this forum and how it serves a lot of people who do indirectly profit from the information here.
Having worked in a (non-fashion based) specialized industry for a decade, these kinds of discussions that take place on SZ provide a lot of the information for what eventually gets done.

Dipping into consumerism, this is big business. Everyone does a good job ignoring that side of it for the most part, but the bottom line is that while we see it as aesthetic and style and art (to some), there are a lot of dollars floating around on the outside.
I think it's only fair that SZ gets a piece of that for the purpose it serves not only to the average member but also to those who use it as a reference guide at times and resource database.

What happens in 'fashion' will happen here first, undoubtedly for a lot of companies and they know that.
The rest of us obviously have a passion for the things we discuss here. Those who don't generally do not last very long.

I don't have the answers but I definitely agree that a program needs to be in place where some money is generated for Faust for the years of work and time he's put into something that so many people enjoy for free.
Business isn't really my forte but I'm sure there are some models of something similar in other industries that might spark some viable options.

I'm totally down for a membership fee. Think of the money that people spend on cups of coffee daily, internet fees, cell phone, netflix and other things that they enjoy daily. It's not the feeling that you should have to pay for everything you enjoy; it's more of a feeling that if you appreciate something and indulge yourself in it, it's more of an investment than a random cost in your life.
Clearly we all take something away from SZ or we wouldn't keep coming back. What's wrong with showing some appreciate for that?

Generally speaking, I'm a devout minimalist. But maybe there could be an index/front page with images that define what SZ is about along with names of some of the designers that get discussed along with a breakdown of the fees to be a member (by month, by six months, by year, as a business) with non-posting access to a handful of sample threads.
Actually specialized porn sites have a pretty good system of tier membership. Not that I've ever paid for online porn.
OK, I have a few times.

Tier level membership that includes specific content access.
In addition, maybe there could be some more elaborate partnerships where members get access to certain discounts, early sales info, discount codes for online retailers and things like that might make someone feel there is a return on membership fees.
(even though the true return is the information you have access to as the result of being a member.)

Obviously those things take work to implement and manage but if Faust could get to a point where he's generating income, ideally (as he mentioned) he could dedicate more time to the whole process.

Again, these are just ideas. I feel I should at least participate in the process.
I just know if I invest a lot of time and effort into something I'm creating, it is a labor of love but I want to parlay that into some money at some point, especially if it is something that has value to others and requires a solid dedication of time.

[fadetogrey]

Just thought I would chime in here... I don't comment a lot, but I do read a lot.

Personally the classifieds don't affect me much, because women's items are far and few between, but I do agree it needs to be cleaned up, either with different sub-forums or fees however you see fit. I like the idea of one thread per user and weekly bumps only- or no bumps- if there was one thread per user it would cut down the number of pages greatly.

I can't wrap my head around the process of charging fees and sorting out "professional" sellers from regular sellers. I don't have a problem with re-sellers if it is more of an "opportunity" thread like Christian or J_J has done in the past. Intentions are clear, and buyers are benefiting from their connections. I don't think it's much different from a proxy service.

Though I know it would be minuscule, I would love a classifieds sub-forum for womens items so I don't have to go cross-eyed by scanning through everything ;)

I am fine with either locking down the classifieds, locking down the entire forum and make it invite-only or pay only (yearly fees rather than monthly fees, I can barely remember to pay my regular bills every month let alone forum fees) I am willing to pay for the forum because I am passionate about the designers talked about here and the wealth of information many of members share. Not to mention eye candy

[rider]

Paying for anything will always isolate some but in the end, if a service is worth it to the individual they will pay for it. this pertains to classified as well as membership fees. right now, this board is an intimate and tuned space, which is good, i just wonder if fee based membership will cause such decreased numbers, thereby spiraling the pool of thought to be too incestuous, for lack of a better word.

fee-based classified makes quite a bit of sense, you could set it up like istockphoto.com which uses credits. you purchase a chunk of credits and they get deducted everytime you make a purchase, this system could easily be applied to the classified (i think ;-)... a packet of credits is purchased through paypal to fausts email account, the member fills out a classified form for listing muliple or single items, based on the form the credits get deducted.

i dont believe faust wants to grow so big the site becomes unrecognizable in its SZ skin, and, the rotating door of free service has the innate probability of control gone a bit haywire and advertising being the needle of the junkie.

i need coffee..........

[mononon]

in upmost respect to Faust, charging regular members any fees whatsoever is slightly unfair, especially since regular members keep this forum running, and are just as important to the site as the creator (no offense to Faust). Posters contribute their opinions about designers, answers to questions, stocklists, opportunities to purchase rare pieces, and so on....

[kuugaia]

^ However, even the regular members take more from this forum than they give back. This is natural considering the abundance of information this place has. I don't believe many regular members will have a problem with paying an annual fee, but it seems that Faust has already mentioned trying to make it free for regulars.

[AKA*NYC]

^ However, even the regular members take more from this forum than they give back. This is natural considering the abundance of information this place has. I don't believe many regular members will have a problem with paying an annual fee, but it seems that Faust has already mentioned trying to make it free for regulars.

i would argue that the relationship between the forum and members who actually contribute - be it by being the resident philosopher (fuuma) or resident julius expert (dji) or just a cool guy in the spirit of things (eternal) - is perfectly reciprocal. how about charging the people who DON'T contribute or deleting their accounts? but seriously i think the free flow of exchange (and items in the classifieds) is what makes this place great and i still stand by my initial thought that a donation button is enough.

[christianef]

i havent had a chance to look over the balance sheet(s) so i can only speculate but i would agree with lowery. the affiliates seem like the primary source of revenue so i would focus on that. doesnt really matter what the members take from here i would assume they want as many people to frequent the site as possible as much as possible. that`s why you buy ad space. and junk in the classifieds probably just translates into more sales for them too. its going to be difficult to find a perfect balance between forum egenics and making a living but id stray from the regular membership fee idea for sure. the idea of letting people lurk for free and pay to contribute which someone mentioned seems especially adjacent to what this community is about. plus with all due respect to the forum a number of the more interesting discussions are like this one or about gay marriage etc which wouldnt make sense to pay for. the idea of a womens senction in classifieds could be interesting...no cover charge, free bottles and a ladies night is the best way to attract a decent crowd.

[Faust]

At this time I do not plan to charge membership fees. One of the foundational pillars of this forum is free exchange of information and opinion among individuals. It is not only me who contributes, but many other valuable members as well. But I will start charging fashion professionals, once I figure out how to do it. Changes are coming soon.

And Beardown is right - SZ is quality, not quantity. I don't care about number of hits. Thank you everyone for chiming in - I appreciate this dialogue very much.

[comedyzen]

I read through first 5 pages then stopped, so please forgive me if what I am about to say is redundant.

About 3 years ago, I learned of Rick Owens when I came across his trainers at Barneys. I did an internet search query on his name and SZ came up which I perused for a long time. Your site has introduced me to Julius, Mr. Poell, Kazuyuki, and a bunch of other expensive bastards who make product I adore and must have. SZ is the reason why I no longer own a few thousand dollars.....but it is all good. Money well spent.

Have you considered going to the source of this website and seeking sponsorship funds from them? You have dedicated threads devoted to their designs...have them sponsor it. You have given them so much exposure and business now time to get some payback.

I have no idea what your analytics are, but $10CPM for such a targeted niche seems fair. Being in the internet marketing industry, I am turned off by banner ads UNLESS they are organic to the site (like your affiliates). So seek kindred advertisers (fashion schools, fabric suppliers, etc.) to sponsor threads (or banner ads) where they can promote their snake oil.

As for the affiliates..I have no idea if you are charging them or if it is in-kind sponsorship....but you should charge a low monthly fee (sorry DHC/AwLouie, et.al.).

Another idea is to copy the Craigslist business model. Have a jobs in the fashion industry/arts/internet/etc thread and the poster needs to pay a nominal fee.

I peruse your classifieds often and post there once every 2-3 months. Like Craigslist, I like to post for free anytime and I think a fee will deter me. I only agree to Ebay fees because their reach is in the 100 of millions.

But yes, I agree that you should make some $$ off SZ....actually, I find it sacrilegious if you don't.

[lowrey]

Have you considered going to the source of this website and seeking sponsorship funds from them? You have dedicated threads devoted to their designs...have them sponsor it. You have given them so much exposure and business now time to get some payback.

while SZ is obviously a huge perk for many of the designers, I wouldn't find it appropriate to demand money from them. they are not responsible for the discussion and information here, we are. and I don't think its right to ask anyone to pay for this, or say "if you don't pay, we wont allow people do discuss your work". if you look at it from the other perspective, without these sort of designers and the desire to discuss their work, SZ might not be here.

[AKA*NYC]

agreed 100% although the intrinsic idea of extorting ccp sounds intriguing.

[Nikov]

also, let's not forget that quite a few designers are criticized very harshly sometimes. obviously not something they would be happy to see if they were to pay SZ. the last thing i would want is for any sort of censorship to come into play.