Carol Christian Poell

[Trendy Andy]

I have to agree with Johnny. The article seems to go around the idea that its unique and there are intentions behind his collection. Upon what I see from his previous collection for women, the current collections does not appear to stem far away from the menswear.

[lowrey]

I have to agree with Johnny. The article seems to go around the idea that its unique and there are intentions behind his collection. Upon what I see from his previous collection for women, the current collections does not appear to stem far away from the menswear.

you have to take into account that this was 10 years ago, his entire approach to womens wear has clearly changed.

Me too. While I understand where you guys are coming from with the earlier women's wear pictures, I think this new stuff looks almost easy to pull off, and quite cool at that.

for me the problem with this is that (on the whole) it really is just his menswear pieces slightly retailored and resized (I mean the new stuff, not the old selotape/vag-skirt collection...). nothing wrong with that in itself, but hardly much merit in it from a design or creative perspective.

I agree on both counts, its not particularly creative in the sense that its a clear extention of the mens collection, in fact a majority of what I've seen for women is also available for men, only exception being the boots posted earlier and the shirt-dress, which by the way looks really cool, and also the cape looking thing. everything else is unisex, which obviously has to be intentional. I think its part of his seasonless concept, he is not specifically making a whole collection for women, but garments which just stem from the mens wear. I personally don't mind the idea, it lacks originality in that sense but on the other hand its the same exceptional design he does for men. looking at the individual garments like the outerwear and the button up dress for example, they look pretty good to me.

it seems like he has had some confusion with making womens clothing, saying that he initially found it very hard to design for women and then making garments that were very conceptual and hardly wearable, like the blood dyed sack and dresses showing the entire front of the body or the entire back. this to me conflicts a bit with his whole ideology of not being an artist but simply designing wearable clothing, or not designing such specific looks but rather focusing on each individual piece of clothing. so I'd say he was pretty much out of his element with these earlier collections.

The ss05 female collection on the other hand was pretty similar to the current one actually, most of the pieces for women were pretty much the same as mens. trousers, knits, leather jackets, button ups and coats were all retailored mens pieces. some random things like oversized shirts and shoes seemed to have been original. this seems to be the formula for the current season as well.

[jcotteri]

I personally think his womens rehash is just allowing the small niche of women who "like/want to wear" his clothes an easy opening. This kind of clothing is in no way, as Merz stated for the effeminate, just as his mens clothing is not for the feint hearted. I really like most of the latest offering and I see nothing that is even unflattering. The suit is probably the least appealing but in no way is it bad(In fact I would say it's just less wonderful), due to the razor sharp tailoring. I completely agree with you ML on the shirtdress, it's wonderful paired with the double belt. I completely agree with your thoughts as well Merz.

I don't see why everyone has to stick to this separation of mens and womens clothing 100% of the time, I know the bodies are different but I don't mind the occasional Androgyny. Carol raising a finger once again.

[Johnny]

cross pollination with the problem of authorship: when poell is involved lazy design equals irreverant bucking of fashion cliches?

[Faust]

That is the crux of the matter. I'm going to make a comparison I know I will be attacked for. If these pictures are indicative of his entire offering for women over the course of his career, he may be as bad at womenswear as KVA ( dodges stones and liquor bottles from all angles).

EDIT: Let me explain a little bit, otherwise my post is useless. What I see here is CCP menswear (which was never really androgynous to begin with) in women's sizes. Conceptually, womenswear cannot be the same as men's clothing. I'm sorry to say that it seems the conceptual master that is Carol Christian Poell has overlooked that.

Noobs, take note.

[Faust]

careful with that axe, eugene. i'm not sure whether you're meaning to kick off gender roles debate part 2, but its seriously tempting to say that the only thing being killed here is the quintessentially-male take on femininity. the sort of woman seen wearing carol's recent offerings likely isn't looking for her physique to be fetishised along the accepted norms. yet this lack of the same traditional cues somehow elevates the 'weird' and 'cruel' to something mysterious and ineluctably feminine.

i would think that the high degree of subjectivity in what defines a 'flattering garment' should be understood here, if anywhere. what, with silly-looking types in bling povera drop 'i just pooped my' crotch trousers, using terms like 'anti-fit', etc..

so yeah. he's killing that fragile, romanticised idea of femininity. allow me to pour some more petrol onto its pyre.

Not trying to start a debate. Was merely expressing my taste in women. You can keep your snow queens, merz - I'll take my Gerda any day.

[jcotteri]

cross pollination with the problem of authorship: when poell is involved lazy design equals irreverant bucking of fashion cliches?

lol

[philip nod]

That is the crux of the matter. I'm going to make a comparison I know I will be attacked for. If these pictures are indicative of his entire offering for women over the course of his career, he may be as bad at womenswear as KVA ( dodges stones and liquor bottles from all angles).

EDIT: Let me explain a little bit, otherwise my post is useless. What I see here is CCP menswear (which was never really androgynous to begin with) in women's sizes. Conceptually, womenswear cannot be the same as men's clothing. I'm sorry to say that it seems the conceptual master that is Carol Christian Poell has overlocked that.

nice try sombre--overlooked, i don't think so. (overlocked, yes) its like walking up to kasparov during a blind fold chess match and telling him he's playing with white pieces. the guy is so far beyond your observation/criticism that to take them into account he'd have to take off his blindfold and lose the game.

[Chant]

/\ At any rate, I'd like to see you wearing some of these slim and long pieces : this is exactly the idea I had while watching the showroom pics. I think both you and the clothes would look great.
Maybe one day in the WAYWT...

[YoungM]

I also would absolutely love to see some women incorporating CCP into their wardrobe.

As for the question of femininity, personally, I find that character trait to be one that clothes affects very little. A quite feminine woman will lose none of said femininity in most of the new CCP stuff. Yes, the old stuff is creepy, rather un-wearable, and more art project than clothing, but I think this batch is quite different.

Though I've had limited experience with poell, I've yet to see much beyond the obvious "art" pieces (the human hair tie, coat, et cetera) that seems overly difficult to wear. Especially the stuff that gets the most play here- his leather jackets, boots, and suits. To me, they all seem like stellar, unique takes on classic garments that manage to be interesting and striking while not drawing overmuch attention from the average eye. As someone who does not posess the balls to wear something like the LUC tunic out in public, I appreciate this a lot.

[genevieveryoko]

These white shoes are cute and feminine, I'd like more info on them if anyone has any. Does he think they look like little white vaginas? It would be hard for me to talk about most of these pieces though without at least a close-up photo - isn't that what Poell is all about - the details?

Honestly, I'm not too concerned with what Poell thinks of women...his clothes are what is interesting to me. Of course I want to try on the red boots, I have been searching for good red boots for a few years now and I still haven't found any...I doubt they will be the ones though.

Obviously, if a woman is to pull off something like Poell (or MA+) she has to style it well...and hopefully if she has the desire to buy Poell she also has enough style to pull it off...Mona probably could.

Seriously though, what women buy this stuff? Probably the type that don't use the internet

EDIT: Obviously, he needs a stylist. Obviously, that model isn't really pulling the suit off that well (in reference to pix ML posted). And, obviously, a woman wearing sneakers with leather capri pants is a bad idea...WTF.

"on a woman anything goes well and so it is less stimulating, and more banal" - CCP Actually that is men's fashion...whatever...

[lowrey]

Seriously though, what women buy this stuff? Probably the type that don't use the internet

EDIT: Obviously, he needs a stylist. Obviously, that model isn't really pulling the suit off that well (in reference to pix ML posted). And, obviously, a woman wearing sneakers with leather capri pants is a bad idea...WTF.

again, I think its worth noting that these images are 10 years old, I don't know if those pieces were ever even produced, my guess would be either no or in very limited quantities, as even today his womens wear is hardly sold anywhere.

regarding the awkward styling, those are not look book photos, they are all taken by buyers. the models are simply sampling things for photos, so the mish mash doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the designers vision

[genevieveryoko]

therefore not a very good representation of Carol's "woman" so to speak*

that's too bad, i was looking forward to those white shoes...are they really from ten years ago? what a shoe tease. oh, wait, perhaps they can be special ordered.

*not to suggest that such a thing exists, or whether or not he's interested in the representation of women through his work...

[lowrey]

a further tease (along with one of the more wearable 99-00 pieces):

[genevieveryoko]

you mean 09/10? or 99/00?