Hip hop goes Owens

[galia]

Lord Jamar talks bullshit.

First, Hip Hop is not only "culture" but music ... and music is art. Art keeps evolving and inspiring people, it doesnt have to stay as it is and last forever because some guys decided hip hop "culture" is what they said.

Hip hop is a culture, or at least a cultural movement. it encompasses dance, graffiti, spoken word, fashion, cinema and even literature. and this subculture has always had a strong element of antagonism with guys dissing each other and accusing each other of not being real etc (cf rap battles)

This Lord Jamar guy is perpetuating an ancestral hip hop tradition ahah

[Faust]

Truth. The best is when rappers boast about themselves. "Never met a motherfucker fresh like me," hmmm....

[lowrey]

First, Hip Hop is not only "culture" but music ... and music is art. Art keeps evolving and inspiring people, it doesnt have to stay as it is and last forever because some guys decided hip hop "culture" is what they said.

I think your culture/music/art disambiguation is kind of irrelevant and what you said about it evolving would make more sense if you talked about the whole culture because like galia said, its more than music. Culture can also include attire which is the basis of the whole discussion, so why limit your point to music. As for the culture evolving, we can clearly see it with the never generation of rappers who are in to fashion (wheter the interest genuine or not...) Traditionally the connection between hiphop and fashion has been more about status (expensive and flashy shit) rather than looking actually fashionable or stylish.

As for that video, its not even worth watching, its just a close minded old fart rambling about how "shits gay". Theres is and has always been a lot of homophobia in the hip hop community. This is more or less related to style as well because anything feminine or androgynous is "gay" if you're close minded enough.

[Dreavan]

Hip hop is a culture, or at least a cultural movement. it encompasses dance, graffiti, spoken word, fashion, cinema and even literature. and this subculture has always had a strong element of antagonism with guys dissing each other and accusing each other of not being real etc (cf rap battles)

This Lord Jamar guy is perpetuating an ancestral hip hop tradition ahah

Yes of course it is but I said "not only", Hip Hop is a major contribution to Art and Art is not including just music but many other topics.

I only talk about what I know so I can appear irrelevant in my argues but I don't pretend I'm expert in Hip Hop. It's just what I think after watching this interview.

I know who Lord Jamar is and even as a good artist, it's obvious he is not talking as a singer or representant of Hip Hop or blablabla. And come on guys, you all know about Lord Jamar convictions so his speech is pretty hypocrite. He is homophobic and is hiding himself behind this "culture" ... but do you only know what "culture" he is talking about? xD

[profondo nero]

I think the reason why this topic stirs so much controversy is not only because that certain "artists" are being disastrously inconsistent trying to incorporate avant-garde fashion into mainstream in a horrible manner but also simply because coming out and playing the taboo of homosexuality card is currently the easiest way to pull a publicity stunt in media and hip hop community driven by the cult of masculinity taken to a ridiculous degree.

As for the interview, I have to admit that Lord Jamar's doctrinaire attitude regrettably misled some of the audience making him fail to deliver the point which is neither about generation gap conflict or his assumed homophobia but qualm coming from distress of local cultural boundaries and identity.
His outlook definitely doesn't represent the point of view of whole community as you can see below in the interview with more assertive articulating himself (lol) Noreaga.

It's not fashion, it's a fucking religion

When you come to L.A., watch your motherfuckin' colors

Speaking of being close minded, when you actually stop paying attention to most BET rap con "artists" and their emotional attachment to Veblen goods, you'll notice that hip hop derived it's own dress code over the years and nevermind how ludicrous it may appeal, making such assumptions as above could result in other perceiving yourself as not less ignorant than forementioned interviewee.

I'm not sure how much of it is a matter of delusion but keeping in mind latest news, I think someone should rename the thread to Rick Owens goes hip hop..

[lowrey]

Speaking of being close minded, when you actually stop paying attention to most BET rap con "artists" and their emotional attachment to Veblen goods, you'll notice that hip hop derived it's own dress code over the years and nevermind how ludicrous it may appeal, making such assumptions as above could result in other perceiving yourself as not less ignorant than forementioned interviewee.

are you referring to my post? you should quote if you are adressing something in particular

assuming you were talking to me, a couple of points:

1. I have a hard time picturing anyone here "paying attention to BET rap".I bought my first rap album almost two decades ago so I like to think I've paid enough attention to have an idea of dresscodes and customs in hip hop.

2. What I said about positional goods and flashy clothing is obviously generalizing, but it has long been a dominating phenomenon in mainstream hip hop, which these artists (the ones being criticized for wearing skirts and whatnot) are a part of.

[AKA*NYC]

As for that video, its not even worth watching, its just a close minded old fart rambling about how "shits gay".

i watched it all the way through and i think it's worth it to tune in at 11:30 which leads to his main point at around 12:35. while i don't wholly agree i still think it's still a valid opinion that warrants discussion and debate.

very curious to see the lo life documentary.

[lowrey]

I admit I didn't watch it through the first time

Heres the mentioned part transcribed so its easier to look at:

"..Now its more like, you want to be a Jimi Hendrix style bohemian, and other shit. Why? Because these things are more palatable to white people. Lets keep it real. A strong black man is scary to white people, to the average white person..... So what do we do, lets feminize, emasculate and sissify him, to make us feel more comfortable."

I don't buy this though, if you look at how immensly hip hop has grown in the past couple of decades, it has certainly been palatable just as it has been. This whole fashion phenomenon is very very new, white people have been into hip hop long before it. When hip hop became popular with white kids they were wearing baggy jeans and jerseys.

[Faust]

I guess it's relevant to post this magnificent piece of wisdom that is the interview Kanye West just gave to the NYT.

[Faust]

Ooops, my bad!

[kuriz]

"I will be the leader of a company that ends up being worth billions of dollars, because I got the answers. I understand culture. I am the nucleus."

what a humble guy ^^

[KodakII]

Good enough to use as a source of inspiration for clothing, but not good enough to wear said clothing? ...got it.

[Castor]

I found it interesting that when Kanye wants to compare himself--in his mind--to another art form he chooses fashion. Why not learn about contemporary art and compare yourself to Jeff Koons or Andy Warhol? Rap about Kehinde Wiley. Fashion is the final frontier of high culture for Kanye and I'm not sure his audience is along for the ride.

[pregnantbob]

I found it interesting that when Kanye wants to compare himself--in his mind--to another art form he chooses fashion. Why not learn about contemporary art and compare yourself to Jeff Koons or Andy Warhol? Rap about Kehinde Wiley. Fashion is the final frontier of high culture for Kanye and I'm not sure his audience is along for the ride.

Final frontier of 'popular' high culture then perhaps? Or at least what an audience who is used to mainstream culture would consider high culture?

Fashion even at its highest form I feel would be more accessible than contemporary art.

[Faust]

I found it interesting that when Kanye wants to compare himself--in his mind--to another art form he chooses fashion. Why not learn about contemporary art and compare yourself to Jeff Koons or Andy Warhol? Rap about Kehinde Wiley. Fashion is the final frontier of high culture for Kanye and I'm not sure his audience is along for the ride.

Maybe he doesn't care about contemporary fine art? Neither does probably much of his audience. And I can't blame him, actually...