Rick Owens profile/feature in the New Yorker

[AKA*NYC]

Re: Rick Owens profile/feature in the New Yorker

God is on Rick's side it seems, especially as of late...

[Faust]

Re: Rick Owens profile/feature in the New Yorker



[quote user="Faust"]god doesn't want us to make up, i just wrote a big conciliatory post, and it got deleted.
[/quote]

Ok - to recap. I refused to argue with you further only because I did not want this to descend any further than it already has. But, since you insist.

1) I am not going to go digging for posts, but I remember you commenting on what an egomaniac Rick is for doing a shirt when he's blowing his brains out, and for doing his wax figure. Yet, you are perfectly comfortable with Karl Lagerfeld's ego that has no rival in the fashion industry - not even Tom Ford - you've said that Karla doesn't bother, have you not? You have also blamed Rick for doing the same thing over an over again, but many have said the same thing about Yohji, Ann, and Margiela. I think you can see how it can come across as biased? And nowhere did I compare Yohji's and Rick's designer prowess - that would be silly - I merely pointed out that the work of both is the extension of their persona. If you think that I wrongly accused you of bias - I apologize. I am not asking you to like Rick. I am not even asking you not to be biased against him. I am biased against Prada. No matter how many exceptions to her work there can be - I despise her and her husband's entire way of doing things, and that's all there is to it.

2) About the "egging on" comment - look back and you can see that we've consistently disagreed on things for the pas few weeks. If that does not bother you, you can write it off to my own insecurity.

3) About Butler, we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I am sure you can understand why I don't like her writing - given my line of work. Nor do I subscribe to the notion that one has to read someone else's oeuvre before opening one's mouth.

That's it. Can we make up now, please?! [51].

[laika]

Re: Rick Owens profile/feature in the New Yorker



Ok Faust. I don't think we're going to reach an understanding here, but I agree that it's time to stop arguing. Peace.

[quote user="Casius"][quote user="Servo2000"]

Either way, I think one of the things that I find interesting is that his "persona" doesn't really strike me as such, especially having lived in Southern California / Los Angeles all my life (as mentioned before). I'm certainly no anthropologist, but I find that there's some relation between Los Angeles and its various subcultures, a constant need for cars, and Hollywood that allows people to construct (and for people in Southern California to look past) aesthetic representation as a part of the whole. The preening nature and manner of dress seems very detached from his mannerisms and real personality which strike me as something very different. For example, much more so than a designer or anything else the way Rick speaks and acts speaks reminds me of surfers - friendly but occasionally semi-belligerent with a penchant for cursing and very down to Earth. I don't get the feeling that Owens was a surfer by any means, but it's very much a result of Los Angeles in general and not really an act in my opinion.

I'm having trouble gathering thoughts at the moment but maybe Cas can help me out or provide further insight as to what I might be trying to get at... I suppose the core of which is that his "persona" doesn't seem to be all that much more so than anyone else's.

Then again, I could just be trying to write a bias into the fact that I like Rick, which I'm going to have to think about.

[/quote]

Servo, well said. I get the very same feeling from Rick; A very down to earth guy but growing up near/on skid row in those years also plays into his whole persona (the long black hair, drug abuse, leaned out, destroyed, etc.). It's the combination of those two worlds of California, the beautiful and the ugly mixed together but his personality seems to have stayed more on the 'California cool' side. I also think the things we see as his persona are also put ons or extremes that he obviously wants us to see (one thing that was great about the article was to hear his hair wasn't really black or straight, all part of his act/persona) and he seems much more laid back.

I have a lot of respect for him because he basically started from nothing in a town that could make you or break you and he was on the verge of being broken and then turned his talents into something beautiful. His clothing is almost a tale of his life in LA.

[/quote]

Hmmm...very convincing and very well said, both of you. Especially
your point, Servo, about how this construction of an aesthetic
self-representation is somehow native to Hollywood/LA; and how as a
native yourself, you don't really notice it. Puts my anthropological
interpretive skills to shame and incidentally, also pretty much debunks
what I was going to put forth as my continuing objection.[:$] But I'll
throw it out there anyway, for the sake of conversation.

It's not the ugly/beautiful thing that bothers me at all--I actually
find that very appealing. Also appealing to me--almost endearing-- is
his self-proclaimed connection to "freaks." I don't think I really
believed in it or thought it was sincere before, but something about
his relationship with his wife and the way he talks about her really
won me over. But I do feel like his theatrical stunts--which I see as
egotistical homages to his past--sort of undermine any authentic
transparency between the man and his clothes. I guess you guys would
say that these things are just extensions of what I call his artificial
persona, but I find them purely sensational and more than a little
self-indulgent. [79] Not to mention incongruous with this
down-to-earth guy who says, "I
just concentrate on doing tasteful separates at a decent price.... I'm just a wannabe Calvin Klein or Giorgio
Armani."
It's like he somehow needs the mediation of the other stuff to convey
what he wants to convey, because the actual designs fall short of doing
so. That's how I feel about the women's clothes, anyway.

Also, since we're talking about geography being a determining factor
here, can we talk about Paris? Because Rick is not just a guy from
California anymore--he's an international designer who show and lives
in Europe, and has been doing so for quite sometime. I think I even
remember reading that he very rarely comes to the West coast anymore,
but I might be mistaken. So I wonder how that fits in with theman
that you both are describing...

I also just wanted to say that I could not agree with this more and that it's really nicely said:

"I have a lot of respect for him because he basically started from
nothing in a town that could make you or break you and he was on the
verge of being broken and then turned his talents into something
beautiful."

Hell yes. [Y]

[zamb]

Re: Rick Owens profile/feature in the New Yorker



I have been reading this since i came back from Jamaica Yesterday, (Funeral for Big. Z)

I have tried to keep my mouth shut..........but cant,

I know you two, and know that your friendships\ mean more than some Rick Owens Jacket,or any differences of perspective there can be about him or any other designer.

One of the things that I have learned over the last few weeks, is that at the end of the day, there is nothing more valuable in life, than Righteousness and the people you love and respect.

Its time for you both to restore the love and respect that exists between you two.

Peace and [51][64]God Bless

[Servo2000]

Re: Rick Owens profile/feature in the New Yorker

[quote user="laika"]

Hmmm...very convincing and very well said, both of you. Especially
your point, Servo, about how this construction of an aesthetic
self-representation is somehow native to Hollywood/LA; and how as a
native yourself, you don't really notice it. Puts my anthropological
interpretive skills to shame and incidentally, also pretty much debunks
what I was going to put forth as my continuing objection.[:$] But I'll
throw it out there anyway, for the sake of conversation.

... (good points) ...

Also, since we're talking about geography being a determining factor
here, can we talk about Paris? Because Rick is not just a guy from
California anymore--he's an international designer who show and lives
in Europe, and has been doing so for quite sometime. I think I even
remember reading that he very rarely comes to the West coast anymore,
but I might be mistaken. So I wonder how that fits in with theman
that you both are describing...

[/quote]

As far as geography goes, I only personally wanted to comment on the "California" element that I saw, because I am not too familiar with the influences of Europe, especially Paris (as I've never been there). Maybe it's this element of "internationality" and a certain degree of fame that causes him to put on what, to me, seems as his "show?" I think he's realized that there are eyes watching him, and that now, detached to a degree from the land and people that defined his "freak" element, he feels a need to continue to remind his customers (and perhaps even himself) that what he stood for then he still stands for now? As he mentioned in the older interview (I haven't had a chance to read the newest article) while he remains connected to a certain degree to some of the members of that "scene" he is essentially removed from it at this point. I think this is largely what you're getting at - and I think you're likely correct on this point.

[voltaire's anti-defamation league]

Re: Rick Owens profile/feature in the New Yorker

geography may way in. it probably has more to do with the bisexual/probably closer to gay thing. no offense to my gay brethren but at the risk of stating the obvious they're the legends of the annoying, over the top, look at me 'fake persona.' i know that sounds close minded but if it wasnt true why would you be offended. could also be credited to the fact his father hates him. i actually felt he came off very charming in the article. i love that hes a bit fucked up and weird even if its motives are questionable thats sort of what cool about fashion...not many other places where a dude like rick could become so well-received on such a high-end level.

[DHC]

Re: Rick Owens profile/feature in the New Yorker

I wonder if Rick hangs out with Courtney Hole to keep some comic relief in his life.

[Faust]

Re: Rick Owens profile/feature in the New Yorker

[86] that would be too funny.

[laika]

Re: Rick Owens profile/feature in the New Yorker

[quote user="Servo2000"]

As far as geography goes, I only personally wanted to comment on the "California" element that I saw, because I am not too familiar with the influences of Europe, especially Paris (as I've never been there). Maybe it's this element of "internationality" and a certain degree of fame that causes him to put on what, to me, seems as his "show?" I think he's realized that there are eyes watching him, and that now, detached to a degree from the land and people that defined his "freak" element, he feels a need to continue to remind his customers (and perhaps even himself) that what he stood for then he still stands for now? As he mentioned in the older interview (I haven't had a chance to read the newest article) while he remains connected to a certain degree to some of the members of that "scene" he is essentially removed from it at this point. I think this is largely what you're getting at - and I think you're likely correct on this point.

[/quote]

A very reasonable explanation. I just wonder why the clothes--if they are truly so consistent, design-wise, with the "man," and a "tale of life in L.A.," as Cas put it--aren't enough of a reminder? But I'm being nit-picky here. Perhaps Rick just has a theatrical, dramatic side and this is just another creative outlet. Creative processes tend to feed off each other, as droogist said very wisely in another thread. So maybe he needs to do these things--put on this show--to be able to design.

And I think what's most interesting about Paris is the way that Rick has been embraced there, which, as lots of critics have mentioned, is pretty unheard of for an American designer.

[Casius]

Re: Rick Owens profile/feature in the New Yorker

[quote user="laika"][quote user="Servo2000"]

As far as geography goes, I only personally wanted to comment on the "California" element that I saw, because I am not too familiar with the influences of Europe, especially Paris (as I've never been there). Maybe it's this element of "internationality" and a certain degree of fame that causes him to put on what, to me, seems as his "show?" I think he's realized that there are eyes watching him, and that now, detached to a degree from the land and people that defined his "freak" element, he feels a need to continue to remind his customers (and perhaps even himself) that what he stood for then he still stands for now? As he mentioned in the older interview (I haven't had a chance to read the newest article) while he remains connected to a certain degree to some of the members of that "scene" he is essentially removed from it at this point. I think this is largely what you're getting at - and I think you're likely correct on this point.

[/quote]

A very reasonable explanation. I just wonder why the clothes--if they are truly so consistent, design-wise, with the "man," and a "tale of life in L.A.," as Cas put it--aren't enough of a reminder? But I'm being nit-picky here. Perhaps Rick just has a theatrical, dramatic side and this is just another creative outlet. Creative processes tend to feed off each other, as droogist said very wisely in another thread. So maybe he needs to do these things--put on this show--to be able to design.

And I think what's most interesting about Paris is the way that Rick has been embraced there, which, as lots of critics have mentioned, is pretty unheard of for an American designer.

[/quote]

I think you hit on the head there. I work side by side with designers all day and being one myself (although nowhere near as talented as Mr. Owens [75]), I definitely live my life or do certain things to motivate and encourage myself to be inspired. I also think some of these things Rick does might come off as being a put on but it may truly be him but perceived by us to be a show. Either way, we will really never know so I take a lot of what he does with a grain of salt and chalk it up to his creative mind running wild.

You're right about Rick being embraced in Paris, I am also quite surprised the public has welcomed him with open arms. That, in itself says a lot about the man's talents....at least to me.

[Faust]

Re: Rick Owens profile/feature in the New Yorker

I'm not that surprised that he does well in Paris. Europeans have long loved all things wild American, starting with the Wild Wild West, when Europe was long pacified and policed by government, continuing with American ghettos. Owens skid row past fits really well to bring these bourgeois closer to the edge of experience.

[AX-OV]

Re: Rick Owens profile/feature in the New Yorker

Damn i finally got to a Barnes and Nobles today, and they JUST put out the MARCH 17th Issue, And tossed the MARCH 10th yesterday :(.. i BLEW IT.. Any one by any chance grab and extra? Ill buy it.

[Faust]

Re: Rick Owens profile/feature in the New Yorker



[quote user="Faust"]I'm not that surprised that he does well in Paris. Europeans have long loved all things wild American, starting with the Wild Wild West, when Europe was long pacified and policed by government, continuing with American ghettos. Owens skid row past fits really well to bring these bourgeois closer to the edge of experience.
[/quote]

No takers?! [:(]

[lowrey]

Re: Rick Owens profile/feature in the New Yorker

just finished reading the article, only had time to go halfway through earlier..

the thought of Rick Owens, his parents in their 80's, Gareth Pugh and Courtney Love sitting next to Rei Kawakubo in some chinese restaurant is pretty hilarious, imagine walking in there. "uhh.. what the f...." [74]

great read, I really liked it.

[dontbecruel]

Re: Rick Owens profile/feature in the New Yorker

[quote user="Faust"]

[quote user="Faust"]I'm not that surprised that he does well in Paris. Europeans have long loved all things wild American, starting with the Wild Wild West, when Europe was long pacified and policed by government, continuing with American ghettos. Owens skid row past fits really well to bring these bourgeois closer to the edge of experience.
[/quote]

No takers?! [:(]

[/quote]

I would say this is true about the French, rather than Europeans in general. And I'm not sure if your explanation for French yankophilia is on the money. I always thought it was a perception of America (and particularly black America) as a land of sexual liberation that appealed to that curious libertine/conservative mindset of the French educated classes.

Serge Gainsbourg captures it brilliantly ("On s' fait des langu's en Ford Mustang - et Bang!")