Money too tight to mention

[Chinorlz]

Re: Money too tight to mention

[quote user="Casius"]


I'll weigh in a little bit deeper when I can but one thing about Damir and other new clothing lines is that they price their items high for a few reasons. One can be they want the clothing to be compared to other lines of high price so they price the line just as high. This will also already determine theirclienteleas well as the stores that will even consider carrying the line. Another isperceivedvalue as they want the customer think they are getting very high quality because 'obviously' high price=quality.

It's one thing I like about Robert Geller. The quality is usually very comparable to the pricing and you are getting a 'fashion' item for a fraction of the price of other high end designers.

Endovanera is also doing some relatively cool things that are fashion forward that are in a great price range.

In the end though, we all have the power to drive pricing, or at least we should. The minute NO ONE buys when the pricing is outrageous then there is no choice for the manufacturers to comply and lower the pricing back down. But if we all submit to higher pricing, justifying it with the economy, the dollar, etc. then we are just setting ourselves up for price hikes every season.

[/quote]

I can see the logic there Cas for sure. At the same time... these designers like Doma et al. have serious balls to charge what they do while remaining unknown. There don't seem to be THAT many people that are willing to drop a large amount of money on a new designer that comes with no real cred or anything else. They aren't "tried and true" in a way.

In part, I think SZ and possibly some other forums have played a decent role in making these guys known to the community at large and lending a bit of legitimacy to them and thus making people feel better about paying that level of $$ for an item from them.

... at the same time, those new shirts that Komakino just got in are godawful. hahahaha

[Faust]

Re: Money too tight to mention

truth. i want a fucking commission.

[JohnFG]

Re: Money too tight to mention

[quote user="Chinorlz"][quote user="Faust"][quote user="TypicalFashion"][quote user="Chinorlz"]

(or Faust will get on a plane and come stab you with his ninja sword).

[/quote]

this seems like the most cost effective way to do things!

[/quote]

CCP fencing jacket - $6000

Round trip ticket NYC - Austin - $500

Seeing Faust chase Albert around with a ninja sword - priceless.

[/quote]

hahahaha

The jacket ended up being $5k delivered. *whew*!

[/quote]

Where did you finally get it from?

Need to see fit pics soon :))

JF

[jcotteri]

this thread title made me lol

[the breaks]

immediately makes me think of http://www.rathergood.com/bunny_too_tight

[Alesha]

I have to note that billionaires rarely blow mad cash on CCP and the like. Mainly as they do not appeal to them.

The highly conceptual brands usually milk upper middle class that compensates inability to self express via mad cash with self expression through dedication to style (aka majority of SZers).

In my opinion fashion became disposable as hell when Russians, Chinese and the like started getting trouphy wives and their kids grew up and started the "Is this new collection?" game, where wearing new collection meant you got moneyz to 100% rehaul your wardrobe every new season. Quite naturally it has nothing to do with fashion, but thats how Industry operates nowadays.

There is hardly any individuality in fashion those days with rare freak or two whom no one take seriously. We pay more to wear what fewer people wear, but all in all, style as concept is dying and is replaced with monetary social fashion ala Veblen. Or perhaps it was always the case?

[galia]

"Is this new collection?" game, where wearing new collection meant you got moneyz to 100% rehaul your wardrobe every new season. Quite naturally it has nothing to do with fashion, but thats how Industry operates nowadays."

I think it has everything to do with fashion, but nothing to do with style

[Alesha]

I think it has everything to do with fashion, but nothing to do with style

Where fashion ends and style starts?

[kbi]

well now it's getting really philosophical. this thread could be expanded in any kind of direction like we could talk about the economic situation, which surely also has its influence on prices (if you compare raf of 90s with raf today for example)..

Personally I will spend a lot of money on something I can AND like to wear a lot and that brings something totally new to my wardrobe. I won't spend 500 $ on a t-shirt because you don't go in this "relation" to the garment.. after a few days of use all influence gets washed away again..

As it already has been mentioned high-end designers can ask for >300$ for a t-shirt just because their leathers for example are really expensive but it's not the leathers they make their profit on.. So for myself I don't see any point in buying RO tees but I'd love a CCP leather.

[Alesha]

Anyway reason why I asked the question, difference between style and fashion exists only when you cannot afford everything that you like and have to choose.

Its also called problem of choice.

Thus money is driving force between both fashion and style.

How much you can blow depends on how much you have primarily, secondary on what you think. There is a de facto limiting factor.

Naturally minimum ticket price varies by demand/supply factor which drives economy generally. If Rick could sell leathers for 20,000$ he would. Except he can't couse than Julius (or some other brand) takes over his market share.

Marketing is what devaluates fashion and style. But it is also what creates the modern fashion.

If fashion people start losing money, the price will drop. Milking audience always has that danger. CDG Black demonstrates this trend perfectly.

[galia]

fashion is something that changes every season to suit the trends and market (and also cf Oscar Wilde), style is the personnal expression of someone through clothes, and finding the adequation between the garment and the personnality. Being stylish is much rarer than merely being fashionable

[Alesha]

In theory merz has it 100%.

But I still believe that in modern world style barely survives.

[Alesha]

oh, i won't disagree with that. for one thing, style isn't marketable.

This I have to disagree with it.

Style is highly marketable. People want to be stylish. They think a brand can make them stylish.

Like sex it sells hard.

Every fashion brand's promise is essentially to make the wearer stylish.

Roberto Cavalli promises that his outlandish over the top clothes make the wearers stylish.

Rick Owens does the same in different way.

You can easily segment the market into several parts, each appealing to different audience and group. Each containing its own group of brands.

This is why people in WAYWT rarely dare to wear anything but SZ sanctioned brands, couse if they do, they will not be recieved equally well and they won't get ton of "I want to cop high tops like that too!"

This is why brands stamp something similiar over and over and rarely step beyond same old aesthetic.

Yes creating aesthetic appeal of note twice by same person is dificult. But hey CCP managed to get close to variety. While Horikawa, Owens, what have you, etc just stamp same old thing over and over, the only real difference being odd new item here and there. In very much same way as Cavalli, Dolce and Gabanna, Gucci.

Anyway I feel I am deviating from the point. So I'll clear it: if you want to discuss style, you should leave brands out of window. Here is funny part, in modern world, you cannot. The brand's significance is much bigger than we can barely comprehend.

Therefore - I feel more that style ceased to exist as concept (except in few rare cases we should discard as oddieties) and instead became a marketing promise.

I find that only a truly mature personality can have a style of its own. And its much easier to try to hide lack of one behind fashion. All you need is couple of high fives in WAYWT thread to feel good, and believe that your stylish. In reality who will judge you to say otherwise?

Hmmmm... I feel that I am about to hit into something ugly and head exploding now... So I force the flow.

[eat me]

this is interesting.

To give a take on original question:

I think that with economy growing rapidly in recent years, more and more people could afford to buy an odd piece of designer clothing here and there. It poses a problem for luxury manufactures, 'cause their product becomes less and less of a status symbol, and the brand's desire for an image of exclusivity and luxury is under threat. The best example is a woman's handbag - the prices in 2000s and prices now are worlds apart - because the brands are trying to artificially preserve their cherished elitist image. Sure, they could drop the price, but then more people will buy it, and the more people will buy it, the more people will question whether it's as status-enhancing to have the latest Vuitton bag as it used to be.

So, to sum up, prices are outrageous to keep the people buying into exclusivity of the brand. It has nothing to do with an actual cost of manufacturing, although I would imagine these costs have gone up as well.

I need to mention here, that this goes for the majority of big mainstream major labels. This brings me onto this:

With Damir Doma as a (relatively) unknown new designer, I see tees around $350, the pants I like are around $700. As a graduate student I'm priced out of their brand even before anyone else knows who the fuck they are. That is kind of startling.

I can understand your frustration. I can't afford any of it either. But. You need to understand that for a new designer who's just starting to build his business it is nigh impossible to charge half the price of established brands and manage to be on par with quality of fabrics and construction.

The reason for it is very simple and very unfair - no one gives a shit about new designers. When you order fabrics they're going to ignore you 'cause you can't order 1000s of meters. And you can't because no ones knows you yet and you don't have a turnover to justify this kind of purchasing. And if someone will sell to you, they will sell it to you for much more then they will sell to a major brand. Then there are the manufacturers who will not take on your production because the volume isn't big enough. And those who will will for the most part be unreliable, or not up to a standard, or will charge you an arm and a leg. And then there are the shops, which are reluctant to make sizable buys because "no one knows who the fuck they are" and they're not willing to take the risk, but they are willing to multiply the price on your things in line with other brands to make themselves some profit.

So, to sum up, if you are an up-and-coming designer everyone is against you. It is vastly cheaper for a major brand to produce, manufacture and sell then it is for you. So tell me why one expects them to drop their price?

And that brings me to

At the same time... these designers like Doma et al. have serious balls to charge what they do while remaining unknown. There don't seem to be THAT many people that are willing to drop a large amount of money on a new designer that comes with no real cred or anything else. They aren't "tried and true" in a way.

Funny how people think that it is ok to buy (for example) RO tee for £100, that costs (for example) £12 to produce, but decide that buying a tee from DD for the same £100 is too much, even thought it costed him about £25 to produce. Way to support the upcoming talent. I mean, you like the tee, you buy the tee, period. Otherwise it's just an "omg-I-spent-£xx-on-this-thing-no-one-knows-about-so-it's-money-wasted" kind of logic, which is more suitable to Gucci crowd, rather than people that hang around here.

[Alesha]

maybe it is naive of me to think that at least some part of this forum's posters are brought together through certain and uncommon idiosyncrasies rather than sycophancy & a pressing need for validation, but i feel somehow equally assured of it through personal experiences with the people in question on and off the forum.. need to think on this for a bit before continuing..

This is what I refered to as "ugly and head exploding".

Creative personalities often wind up very insecure, misunderstood, and subconciously strive for validation, not becouse they actually need it.

However there are also people who need to validate in order to avoid void that replaces personality.

So all in all they start following designers, buying clothes in extreme amounts - going to ourageous amounts of self denial for validation. All in all to be validated as stylish by style experts, who are already working in the Fashion industry, who in turn cannot exist without empty husks buys more and more clothes, becouse otherwise it will threaten their existance. It is a self replicated style.

This is why society gloryfies models - whose only worth is pictures that other talented people take of them, in make up other people make for them, in clothes that other people create to be put within magazine whose content is created by aforementioned people+interpreter... Is there a place for style and personality in such world?