Money too tight to mention

[eat me]

Alesha,

This is why brands stamp something similiar over and over and rarely step beyond same old aesthetic.

In a way it's true, some brands get stagnated in their own success. On the other hand, if brand's aesthetics would noticeably deviate from season to season it would fail to create a following and therefore kill itself.

[Alesha]

Funny how people think that it is ok to buy (for example) RO tee for £100, that costs (for example) £12 to produce, but decide that buying a tee from DD for the same £100 is too much, even thought it costed him about £25 to produce. Way to support the upcoming talent. I mean, you like the tee, you buy the tee, period. Otherwise it's just an "omg-I-spent-£xx-on-this-thing-no-one-knows-about-so-it's-money-wasted" kind of logic, which is more suitable to Gucci crowd, rather than people that hang around here.

So you are saying that crowd here differs from Gucci background becouse it buys designers that are mostly unknown at the moment?

This reminds me of teenager problem of "I want to be different couse I am just a regular bloke and don't excell in rugby or have sex appeal of my other class mate" so I don black jeans, boots and Bauhaus t-shirt and start pretending to be different by looking different, and listening to bands nobody heard of it, hoping that it makes me more sophisticated with time.

[Alesha]

Alesha,



In a way it's true, some brands get stagnated in their own success. On the other hand, if brand's aesthetics would noticeably deviate from season to season it would fail to create a following and therefore kill itself.

In other words Designer when he becomes a brand (which happens when he enters a market) is forced to operate within confides of his original brand book/brand concept in order to make cash. Where is style in that? Why are we going OMGFA over each new collection? Becouse of quality of clothing? Well we should rename forum TextureZeitgeist or something.

[eat me]

haha, no. I'm saying that the crowd here mostly wear what they wear because they value an idea and craftsmanship that goes into it, therefore if you like what someone does, you buy it, not bothering whether the brand has enough recognition to grant you some drooling in waywt.

[eat me]

In other words Designer when he becomes a brand (which happens when he enters a market) is forced to operate within confides of his original brand book/brand concept in order to make cash. Where is style in that? Why are we going OMGFA over each new collection? Becouse of quality of clothing? Well we should rename forum TextureZeitgeist or something.

As it happens, hopefully designer is not forced. Designer has a vision, therefore has a certain aesthetic, therefore he keeps creating things that go along with his vision. Now, forcing himself to design differently will mean losing that initial idea and more often than not, produce some shitty stuff.

So, I guess the challenge is to strike the right balance between reinventing itself with each season without abandoning the thing that made you appealing in the first place.

***

Also, designers are not about style. Style is personal. Ideally, it's also unique to each one of us. But designers produce for people, not solely for themselves.

[galia]

Well, my point has been made amply clearer by merz and alesha, in a much more articulate way than I could ever have.

You're always going to have sheeplike followers, however elitist the context. It's like with music, even for the most experimental and challenging music, you will have some who genuinely enjoy it and some who pretend to enjoy and understant it in order to feel validated and accepted by those who genuinely do. The same thing happens in fashion and there's nothing you can do to avoid it. That's also how obscure and independant subgenres in any realm of expression become mainstream and accused to "sell out".

The thing is that if you are truly stylish it makes no difference, and neither does the price really, to a certain extend; because it is not about the brands, their popularuty or lack thereof, or an accumulation of recognisable items; it is about craftsmanship, association and coherence

(speaking of which, I'm pretty sure my message is totally devoid of that last quality)

***

"Also, designers are not about style. Style is personal. Ideally, it's also unique to each one of us. But designers produce for people, not solely for themselves."

Ideally a designer's work reflects his personnality just as personnal style would reflect the personnality of a stylish person, and then both aesthetics can come together, almost like a friendship. to me this is very different than simple brand-following, although it can be difficult to differentiate both attitudes from the outside

[Alesha]

i would like to write a more complete answer becoming of the stated question! but, to summarise without excessive idealism or naivete, so long as there is someone to ask that question (and there is a significant number of people who do..), the answer is yes.

I think the main object of fashion industry (the world I refer to, sometimes I can be unclear, bear with me please :) ) is to destroy a notion of style and recode the people's perceptions of each other and their personalities into language of fashion. As such any designer has to play that game.

This creates a following logical equasion:

You have X amount of designers who make Y amount of lines each, who are commented on and influenced by Z influencers (SZ for me is a influencer group), thus to find something that fits into your personality and suits you - one needs to search through the XYZ clowd. HOWEVER, everything falls apart becouse there is no garantee that it is in existance. Thus you can only create a personality within XYZ crowd to be favourably recieved by experts.

This dilemma is well understood by fashion industry and to avoid it they add the Vintage pomp that should add extra layer to existing XYZ.

haha, no. I'm saying that the crowd here mostly wear what they wear because they value an idea and craftsmanship to goes into it, therefore if you like what someone does, you buy it, not bothering whether the brand has enough recognition to grant you some drooling in waywt.

You cannot deliver the idea and craftmanship in picture you have to feel it or read up on it. Check old WAYWT posts. When picture is gone all that remains is brands people post. The consitancy of the look becomes secondary as soon as you can rock out all out "SZ sanctioned brands look".

This brings me to second existantial question: WHY BLACK?

[galia]

more elegant ? goes with everything ? lots of sz-ers used to be teenage goths and kept at it ?

[Alesha]

As it happens, hopefully designer is not forced. Designer has a vision, therefore has a certain aesthetic, therefore he keeps creating things that go along with his vision. Now, forcing himself to design differently will mean losing that initial idea and more often than not, produce some shitty stuff.

So, I guess the challenge is to strike the right balance between reinventing itself with each season without abandoning the thing that made you appealing in the first place.

***

Also, designers are not about style. Style is personal. Ideally, it's also unique to each one of us. But designers produce for people, not solely for themselves.

Designer has a vision? Designer has an expectation he has to make up for.

Having a vision does not equal having only one aesthetic.

Most designers just take several inspirational sources, remix it and bam thats vision... (The problem I call remix post industrial culture)

To be honest I have very little respect for people who call themselves designers. There are handful of artists there, who are very rarely commercially sucesseful or even understood. But in the end every designers aspiration is money and fame, so they have to make a deal with their conscience and hollow fashion industry.

[eat me]

galia

Ideally a designer's work reflects his personnality

I said it earlier myself. However, the thing is that for me personally style as a notion is subjective, so when his personal style translates into tees hanging in the shop I prefer using another word - like aesthetic, or vision. But it's just me, we're pretty much agreeing here anyway.

merz, true that, but I wasn't discussing it yet :). I was on the matter of the new designers. Btw, anything to say about that?

Alesha, slow down, you keep misreading my posts.

You cannot deliver the idea and craftmanship in picture you have to feel it or read up on it. Check old WAYWT posts.

What is this about? I am not saying that. I am saying that ultimately, if you like the piece, you buy it, if you don't, you don't, you don't worry about the crowd acceptance value of it and demand it to cost less/more on that basis. And I like to think that the members on SZ do exactly that. This is what I'm saying.

[galia]

(by the way, are we all russian?.. lol)

I'm only half russian, mostly french since I live in France and my russian is not as good as it should be

[Alesha]

good summary. (by the way, are we all russian?.. lol)

Hehe funnily enough we are and all who were displaced from Mother Russia for extended amount of time that lead to not fitting in quite perfectly into surrounding.

In regards to goth teenagers... I suppose majority of SZers are the "Kids who don't fit in" and "Teenage rebels" taken to another level. But lets face it that another level is rather vague. So now my black is more expensive? Today I am funnily enough dressed in all black with huge tits print on t-shirts (got to love V. Westwood classics). But I cannot answer "WHY BLACK COHERENTLY" I understand why I wear black, and merz, and galia (if she does) and just about every sz... BUT. WHY BLACK?

On unrelated note. Recently I did unholy deal with devil to win a pitch for a fashion brand and got forbidden lore on how people percieve fashion in same manner again. Mainly becouse we conducted crazy amount of market research and ever since I saw result, I find a dilemma that I cannot force myself to buy anything (except blood red julius rider for which I will take a trip to Japan). I will have to articulate later what shocked me.

[eat me]

Designer has a vision? Designer has an expectation he has to make up for.

Of course he has. At least, he should have. It's years later he is going to have expectations.

To be honest I have very little respect for people who call themselves designers.

huh? I mean, seriously, what?

merz,

(by the way, are we all russian?.. lol)

Hm, I think we are. Собрались как бабки на скамейке хаха.

[Alesha]

galia



I said it earlier myself. However, the thing is that for me personally style as a notion is subjective, so when his personal style translates into tees hanging in the shop I prefer using another word - like aesthetic, or vision. But it's just me, we're pretty much agreeing here anyway.

merz, true that, but I wasn't discussing it yet :). I was on the matter of the new designers. Btw, anything to say about that?

Alesha, slow down, you keep misreading my posts.



What is this about? I am not saying that. I am saying that ultimately, if you like the piece, you buy it, if you don't, you don't, you don't worry about the crowd acceptance value of it and demand it to cost less/more on that basis. And I like to think that the members on SZ do exactly that. This is what I'm saying.

I am sometimes guilty of doing stuff like that. Its a trait I battle hard. But I see what you are saying but the bottom line is... I feel that certain things I see on forum destroy consistancy of such idea.

[eat me]

I will have to articulate later what shocked me.

Please do.

WHY BLACK?

Because most of the brands worn here are using it as a primary colour. Now, why are they doing that?

*to create a certain mood
*it helps to offset the femininity of fabrics and silhouettes used in many collections
*it's easier do design with
*it's easier to wear
*for upcoming designers it's also more attainable then custom-printed fabrics and easier to stand your ground in terms of quality
*it's a flattering colour
*it's practical