Randomness

[Lane]

I think its more a problem that we don't embrace creativity in schooling, and instead are concerned with standardized tests and such and such. It seems like schooling is mechanized in order to simply produce future worker bees, and not necessarily individuals who will do something special for society. I'm obviously an idealistic kid here, but I think its why kids are pretty rebellious when it comes to education. We are too concerned with cultivating people into a certain manner, but not really asking them what they want. I'm not advocating not going to school, but I'd like to see schooling be done differently.

I embrace the fact that we try to introduce people to a complete liberal arts education, but I also dislike the arbitrary standards set by schooling. Forcing people to take needless classes they might not a need for is detrimental as well.

I haven't even touched on how we are becoming a dumber society even though we spend more and more on education. Something has to be wrong here. At least with the US model.

I agree with faust that pop culture also is pretty detrimental since it detracts people from doing something in their interest as a young kid cuz we are caught up in insignificant ideas of what is "cool." Which is funny since some of these kids are considered rebellious for doing this, but I'd argue a true rebel ignores all of that, and pursues their own path. Succumbing to pop culture is the easy route.

/rambling off

[cjbreed]

faust- you are totally correct. primarily with respect to discipline, memory training and multiple choice tests, and the concept of the noble profession. unions are just a part of it.

i think the issues children have with discipline and respect for others obviously come from what is lacking in the home. it is far too complex an issue to address here, but one major contributor is the need for media babysitters (tv, dvd's) because both parents are working full time. EVERYTHING is a product. everything on tv is a product. and what sells? sex. violence. selfishness. the lowest common denominator. and kids are plopped down in front of it from birth. even in the car. and both parents are at work because of the disappearance of middle class prosperity. that post 1973 changing distribution of income. wages have gone down. the ultra rich get richer, the poor get further separated from society, the upper middle class college graduates do ok. and the giant sea of lower middle class unskilled workers scramble in a minefield of reduced wages and increased cost of living, shit healthcare and shit education. deregulation, big business, corporate greed and corrupt politicians killed the middle class and obliterated the poor.

i'll tell u something else about youth today. i think they are being damaged by this lifestyle of constant stimulation to the reward center of their brain. every fucking tweet, facebook post, every time they change the channel, or jerk it to some internet porn or kill someone on black ops is a stimulation to their reward center of the brain and it is all SELFISH. self oriented. it is literally all about ME. and that is fast, rewarding and highly addicitive. why bother developing an appreciation for elders and a deeper understanding of what is truly rewarding when i can call my teacher a dick, tweet about it, and have 50 people tell me i'm awesome in about 5 seconds and then feel great about myself? and this is all a PRODUCT. to make money. twitter, facebook, mtv fuckin jersey shore 16 and pregnant fucks.

these fuckin kids with their mtv. haha i'm old.

[Faust]

We shared an old man's rant!

[kunk75]

this is so painfully true. i cannot hire recent grads anymore because they have been trained to do nothing but navel gaze and live within their own worlds of self aggrandizement and their parents rewarding them for doing the shit they are supposed to do

i'll tell u something else about youth today. i think they are being damaged by this lifestyle of constant stimulation to the reward center of their brain. every fucking tweet, facebook post, every time they change the channel, or jerk it to some internet porn or kill someone on black ops is a stimulation to their reward center of the brain and it is all SELFISH. self oriented. it is literally all about ME. and that is fast, rewarding and highly addicitive. why bother developing an appreciation for elders and a deeper understanding of what is truly rewarding when i can call my teacher a dick, tweet about it, and have 50 people tell me i'm awesome in about 5 seconds and then feel great about myself? and this is all a PRODUCT. to make money. twitter, facebook, mtv fuckin jersey shore 16 and pregnant fucks.

these fuckin kids with their mtv. haha i'm old.

[Lane]

lol, im young but im perfectly willing to agree here. In fact it bothers me as well. The sense of entitlement people have nowadays is extremely detrimental. People feel like they deserve things they absolutely don't, and fret when they don't obtain it.

Shit its so addicting, but at the same time so bad for us.

[theconsumer]

younger generation is also a mirror image (or more extreme development) of the older in many ways which are painful to admit.

for example, the mind unraveling engine of facebook is a corrupt gift from older generation to younger, not vice versa. and majority of people there - old or teen - don't post anything thoughtful ever. they just participate in this illusion of expression, mold themselves into consumers instead of individuals, buy lifestyles (lady gaga or marilyn manson aren't that much different) and finally sell their lives to benefit of advertisers and elites, both as shortsighted as the serfs are.

in many ways i feel as sorry for younger generation as i feel sorry for myself for living on the same planet with (on average) such brain dead zombies . they are really being fucked up. and as far as change for the better goes, the generation now in their teens are clearly the only hope. sixties, seventies and eighties haven't done much

[Faust]

Cjbreed, this article is relevant to our discussion. This in particular

A raft of recent studies found that public salaries, even with benefits included, are equivalent to or lag slightly behind those of private sector workers. The Manhattan Institute, which is not terribly sympathetic to unions, studied New Jersey and concluded that teachers earned wages roughly comparable to people in the private sector with a similar education.

[Farkhanyassin]

So, um, I'm in Paris for 8 hours. Rush.

[Faust]

Enjoying my new MacBook Air!

[cjbreed]

Cjbreed, this article is relevant to our discussion. This in particular

man this is a difficult problem to solve. a key component is this little conundrum right here:

Assemblyman Paul D. Moriarty, a liberal Democrat, served four years as mayor of Washington Township. As the bill for pension and health benefits for town employees soared, he struggled to explain this to constituents.

“We really should not receive benefits any better than the people we serve,” he says. “It leads to a lot of resentment against public employees.”

All of which sounds logical, except that, as Mr. Moriarty also acknowledges, such thinking also “leads to a race to the bottom.” That is, as businesses cut private sector benefits, pressure grows on government to cut pay and benefits for its employees.

Robert Master, political director for the Communication Workers of America District 1, which represents 40,000 state workers, speaks to that difficulty.

“The subtext of Christie’s message to a lot of people is that ‘you’re paying for benefits you’ll never have,’ ” he says. “Our challenge is how to defend middle-class health and retirement security, not just for our members but for all working families, when over the past 30 years retirement and health care in the private sector have been essentially demolished.”

here is a good article about the issues with teaching and the behavioral problems of today's children - Department Of Education Study Finds Teaching These Little Shits No Longer Worth It

seems pretty much spot on...

and Eternal i don't think the world is more selfish necessarily, although it probably is as industrialized cultures have more leisure time, i am saying that american young people are. they have been conditioned to be that way. there is more stimuli, coming from more places, more often, than ever before. and it is all designed to reinforce selfish desires. AND to cultivate a culture of conformity to the mindless indulgence of selfish impulses. you are literally expected to indulge every little whim as a way of kind of building a temple to your cherished and special uniqueness. its self worship. phony undeserved and fragile self esteem. "whatevah, whatevah. i do what i want!"

obviously this is not universal. good parenting can prevent all of this stuff...

[casem]

Blaming the world's problems on technology and kids these days being distracted by all their new flim flam is such incredible bullshit. The most dangerous lie too many Americans believe is 1. that poor people are poor because they're lazy (and therefore also not deserving of basic human services like health care) and 2. that rich people some how deserve their wealth. Capitalism rewards almost exclusively bad behavior and many wealthy people do a lot less work and a lot less good for society than people who put rivets in cars all day. The rich get rich off the backs of those laborers, so lets try not to be so condescending toward factory workers.

[kunk75]

yeah, it is just the privilidged ones i've dealt with, sure there are plenty of hard working young people.

Although I can see where you guys are coming from the world is not more selfish now than i was in the late 80s, and I doubt people have changed much. It is really a question where you have to think about the demographics as well. People who are chasing the good life in a certain place are probably looking for more validation and rewards than someone still living and working in a small town. I won't really say the guy who moved to the city is more selfish, he might just want different things in life.

I feel sorry that you have to feel that way Kunk. Some people growing up in the upper middle class might be that way, but others are not. It's just completely BS to say that all recent graduates are this way. Maybe there are more and more of them, but you can still find people willing to work hard to reach the goals, and eventually get their piece of the cake.

[kunk75]

someone said it earlier, but this country's mantra is work smart, not hard.

Blaming the world's problems on technology and kids these days being distracted by all their new flim flam is such incredible bullshit. The most dangerous lie too many Americans believe is 1. that poor people are poor because they're lazy (and therefore also not deserving of basic human services like health care) and 2. that rich people some how deserve their wealth. Capitalism rewards almost exclusively bad behavior and many wealthy people do a lot less work and a lot less good for society than people who put rivets in cars all day. The rich get rich off the backs of those laborers, so lets try not to be so condescending toward factory workers.

[cjbreed]

Blaming the world's problems on technology and kids these days being distracted by all their new flim flam is such incredible bullshit. The most dangerous lie too many Americans believe is 1. that poor people are poor because they're lazy (and therefore also not deserving of basic human services like health care) and 2. that rich people some how deserve their wealth. Capitalism rewards almost exclusively bad behavior and many wealthy people do a lot less work and a lot less good for society than people who put rivets in cars all day. The rich get rich off the backs of those laborers, so lets try not to be so condescending toward factory workers.

not sure if this is directed at me but i didn't say or imply any of that. in many respects i said quite the opposite.

and i most certainly didn't blame the worlds problems on technology. i said kids are being conditioned in a negative way by some of the PRODUCTS that technology has created. and they are.

[zamb]

someone said it earlier, but this country's mantra is work smart, not hard.

Yes, but it is this idea, or at least the immoral version of it that has brought this Country teetering on a financial precipice.
For me, working smart means understanding that hard work is a part of the equation, and it cannot be avoided, and the only lasting and meaningful smartness I can approach it with is to figure out the most efficient way to get the actual work done that exist, without avoiding it or passing it on to someone else.

Smartness is interpreted by many as a way of getting someone else to do the work, while receiving the returns, or at least, doing the least amount of work for the most returns...............that kind of mindset might enrich a few, but will certainly bring the masses to a serious state of destitution..........