Carol Christian Poell

[Casius]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

That glove is awesome! Thanks for posting those Albert....Do you happen to have any more older pictures?

[Chinorlz]

Re: Carol Christian Poell



I did manage a photo of the ox blood dyed item(s):

It's gotta be a combination of blood and dye to get those sorts of colors... looks like the leather is lacquered/treated post-dying too to lock in the colors and such.

[Faust]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

[quote user="laika"]

ah, the semi-annual SZ CCP pricing conversation is here again....[86]

[quote user="mortalveneer"][quote user="justine"]

That's interesting.

I wonder why would a price of $x or $y affect the artisanal/artistic value of an item?

The flip side of a reasoning like 'I never go on sale' is that you definitely attach an importance to the price of the item then, i.e. you do subscribe to something that isn't really artisanal(?).
And what if you base your rebate not on seasons? Anyways ...

[/quote]

Good point...if you place a stringent price on your item, you have perfectly quantified it in monetary terms. If it never goes on sale, it translates to this item is ALWAYS equivalent to $x...

[/quote]

Interesting points. Forgive my very shoddy economics, but if Carol is an artisan,than presumably he is becoming more skilled every year, and the (hourly) wage for his labor is increasing along with his skill. So the price for a given item reflects (among other things) the price of his labor in a particular year. I don't see why it's un-artisanal to assign a fixed value in this way....

alternatively,

If the rising prices are not the reflection of growing skills, but instead merely reflect how CCP is valued by the market, then shouldn't Carol actually be raising the prices of his past season clothes to keep their value constant with his newer pieces? i.e., to show that the value of last year's overlock leather is not depreciated by the fact that he made a different ("new") overlock this year?

[/quote]

don't give him any ideas, please.

[Faust]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

[quote user="Avantster"]

I hate to sound like a presumptuous banker but I will repeat - price and value are two completely different things. Price is what you pay, value is what you get. Unfortunately price often does not reflect value.

I believe by maintaining prices and not going on sale, Carol is, in a way, imparting a view on how he values his own work. I don't think this is un-artisanal, either. In fact, it is this refusal to play the fashion game, the continual cycle of unsatisfying consumption, that makes it all the more artisanal. The value inherent in his work, whether it be from the ideas, materials, workmanship, or execution, demands that at least certain price be paid. These are items to be worn, to be kept, to be yours. Rather than items to be consumed, to be used, and thrown out the next season.

However having said all that, what we all wouldn't do to have prices that are more in line with value..

[/quote]

well said [Y] loved his double-buckle belt, don't value it at $700 [85]

[Faust]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

[quote user="xadam"][quote user="laika"][quote user="xadam"]

Reasonable points, but limited sales reflects the stores' policies, not CCP's, right?

It seems like it's just a business decision -- A knows that they're the only game in town for CCP/MA/LUC and this limited availability means that people are more willing to throw down for pieces from previous seasons.

[/quote]

I could be wrong, but I thought never putting things on sale was a CCP (and CDiem) policy that certain stores choose to not follow.

[/quote]

Regardless, limited production runs + limited retail outlets + high demand seems to imply that marking these pieces down is a bad business decision. I've derailed the artisan pricing aspect of this discussion which was much more interesting, so I'll stop now.

[/quote]

Not so sure about this - if the stores don't sell your stuff and stop ordering because they don't have space for new stuff, and you are now forced to take a semester off = bad business decision (the stores already paid you for the merchandise they haven't sold yet).

[Chinorlz]

Re: Carol Christian Poell



I certainly hope that he's not going to bypass F/W2008... it would not only be a shame because it'd be 6-8 months without something from him...and also it would be a shame for him to skip what is his strongest season with the most amazing pieces. Even with S/S, you can tell he's just wishing the weather were cooler (turtlenecks? coats? double layered leather jackets? come on!)

.. at the same time it'd allow the wallet a bit of breathing time!

[ddohnggo]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

keep in mind that A is getting a f/w suit from carol. so that may be an indication that f/w is still on...

[Chinorlz]

Re: Carol Christian Poell



oh word...

both good and bad.

I'm jonesing for that fully reversible pant and matching jacket from a number of seasons ago. Faust, I believe you got to see/handle the pants a ways back?

Killer stuff.....

[Casius]

Re: Carol Christian Poell



Really?? Damn, I may just have to start saving now....I wished I had picked up the suit all of you did but I just couldn't afford it at the time.

You would think A would have done the buying for F/W already? Or maybe, since it's Carol, it's a bit off schedule....

[ddohnggo]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

i'll ask when i go there tomorrow. i bet it's off schedule.

[laika]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

[quote user="Faust"][quote user="xadam"][quote user="laika"][quote user="xadam"]

Reasonable points, but limited sales reflects the stores' policies, not CCP's, right?

It seems like it's just a business decision -- A knows that they're the only game in town for CCP/MA/LUC and this limited availability means that people are more willing to throw down for pieces from previous seasons.

[/quote]

I could be wrong, but I thought never putting things on sale was a CCP (and CDiem) policy that certain stores choose to not follow.

[/quote]

Regardless, limited production runs + limited retail outlets + high demand seems to imply that marking these pieces down is a bad business decision. I've derailed the artisan pricing aspect of this discussion which was much more interesting, so I'll stop now.

[/quote]

Not so sure about this - if the stores don't sell your stuff and stop ordering because they don't have space for new stuff, and you are now forced to take a semester off = bad business decision (the stores already paid you for the merchandise they haven't sold yet).

[/quote]

That makes sense, in theory, but, given how limited the production is,
and how high the demand is, is there actually a lot of CCP out there
languishing on the sale racks? If this board is any indication, the
stuff seems to sell quite well even at full retail.[:^)]

[Chinorlz]

Re: Carol Christian Poell



[quote user="ddohnggo"]i'll ask when i go there tomorrow. i bet it's off schedule.
[/quote]

That's what I'm guessing as well. I received no hint of anything being cancelled... likely just off schedule. Skipping a season is financial suicide especially for such a small team.

[Casius]

Re: Carol Christian Poell



[quote user="ddohnggo"]i'll ask when i go there tomorrow. i bet it's off schedule.
[/quote]

Joey- Do you know what other SS08 items A is waiting on? More button downs and trousers I'm hoping? (and of course the boots)

Laika- I would say there's actually a good amount of old CCP out there still on the racks (considering the small amount of retailers). Probably not from 5-6 years ago or anything but I have personally witnessed a bunch of 05-06 items on the rack at Maxfield (as well as jewelry) and A still has some select items from SS07. Albert has also spoke of L'Eclaireur having a ton of older items in their stores (not Rue Herold).

Like Faust and I said though, it just doesn't seem like good business to keep thousands of dollars of merchandise on the racks. Even Karlo stated, that what he does is run a business. (from the Article Faust posted recently)

[ddohnggo]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

A is waiting on a big shipment of outerwear, which i believe include the double layered kangaroo leather jacket, several suit jackets and matching pants (not an A suit). the third shipment are boots and other pieces. i wouldn't be surprised if there were more shirts.

[Casius]

Re: Carol Christian Poell



Nice, thanks man!

Here's to hoping they ordered that light grey blazer....