Carol Christian Poell

[Chinorlz]

Re: Carol Christian Poell



Mesh knows what I'm getting at. You can have passionate SA's but if the guy running the scene doesn't like keeping stuff around for seasons at a time... it's going on sale. Some stores just have a business mindset and not an artistic one (rather... they probably have both but it gets skewed to the former rather than the latter).

Resale on ebay, SZ, yahoo etc I think falls under a different category altogether as it is not a retail environment. You will note though that certain sought after/rare pieces will still command high dollar. CCP overlocks on the secondary market (if the seller is patient) can bring in near-full retail on the regular. Rarer pieces can go for ever more than original pricing as well.

[Chinorlz]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

[quote user="xcoldricex"][quote user="mesh"]


That's because they are merely employees of a retail store and don't control pricing whereas Karlo ultimately dictates policy according to what he believes is the optimal course of action for his own establishment.

People reselling ccp for less has nothing to do with business unfortunately.

[/quote]

yes, but albert is trying to use passion for the clothing/appreciation of the clothing as art as a reason to not put the pieces on sale.... if that's the case then the resale market should also reflect that (of course this is up to the seller but an example would be old cloak pieces that sell for above their original retail in the second hand market). i remember pnids talking about this maybe a month ago.

[/quote]

I think it really does come down to the same distinction though even in the secondhand market when put that way... I gave the example of the overlock jacket above...

There are certain items you just don't see on the secondhand market (or barely at all)... if you ever see an A suit up here (which I doubt will ever happen...) it's not gonna be sellin for $1500. Chances are it'll be for the near retail or full retail of $3300. Why? Shit be limited and just downright baller.

Cdiem footwear in the cases of them being rare (Uparmoureds pair he sold not too long ago on here) will get very close to retail and the seller will not accept anything less. The more common ones like the reverse calfs that barneys pulled out some back stockroom will not get more than $800ish.

All that being said... I still wish CCP went on sale... at least every once in a while hehehe. AB does it but they don't buy adventurously (see COLLARED MA+ "aviator" hoodless zipup).

[kompressorkev]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

i think there are certain items that won't go on sale...the market is still very strong for several recognizable pieces. but then there's some overlocked, thick red leather pants (like the jeans but red leather) that can be had for a deep, deep discount...multiple sizes available - anybody interested (i'mhalf joking, but who can pull this off)? i've seen a perforatedtanleather long coat (not s/s 08 but much earlier) that was on huge sale (and was pretty wild), but i think it got snatched up.

[laika]

Re: Carol Christian Poell



ah, the semi-annual SZ CCP pricing conversation is here again....[86]

[quote user="mortalveneer"][quote user="justine"]

That's interesting.

I wonder why would a price of $x or $y affect the artisanal/artistic value of an item?

The flip side of a reasoning like 'I never go on sale' is that you definitely attach an importance to the price of the item then, i.e. you do subscribe to something that isn't really artisanal(?).
And what if you base your rebate not on seasons? Anyways ...

[/quote]

Good point...if you place a stringent price on your item, you have perfectly quantified it in monetary terms. If it never goes on sale, it translates to this item is ALWAYS equivalent to $x...

[/quote]

Interesting points. Forgive my very shoddy economics, but if Carol is an artisan,than presumably he is becoming more skilled every year, and the (hourly) wage for his labor is increasing along with his skill. So the price for a given item reflects (among other things) the price of his labor in a particular year. I don't see why it's un-artisanal to assign a fixed value in this way....

alternatively,

If the rising prices are not the reflection of growing skills, but instead merely reflect how CCP is valued by the market, then shouldn't Carol actually be raising the prices of his past season clothes to keep their value constant with his newer pieces? i.e., to show that the value of last year's overlock leather is not depreciated by the fact that he made a different ("new") overlock this year?

[Avantster]

Re: Carol Christian Poell



I hate to sound like a presumptuous banker but I will repeat - price and value are two completely different things. Price is what you pay, value is what you get. Unfortunately price often does not reflect value.

I believe by maintaining prices and not going on sale, Carol is, in a way, imparting a view on how he values his own work. I don't think this is un-artisanal, either. In fact, it is this refusal to play the fashion game, the continual cycle of unsatisfying consumption, that makes it all the more artisanal. The value inherent in his work, whether it be from the ideas, materials, workmanship, or execution, demands that at least certain price be paid. These are items to be worn, to be kept, to be yours. Rather than items to be consumed, to be used, and thrown out the next season.

However having said all that, what we all wouldn't do to have prices that are more in line with value..

[philip nod]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

cherish the love we have, we should cherish the love, cherish the love...

[laika]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

[quote user="Avantster"]

I hate to sound like a presumptuous banker but I will repeat - price and value are two completely different things. Price is what you pay, value is what you get. Unfortunately price often does not reflect value.

I believe by maintaining prices and not going on sale, Carol is, in a way, imparting a view on how he values his own work. I don't think this is un-artisanal, either. In fact, it is this refusal to play the fashion game, the continual cycle of unsatisfying consumption, that makes it all the more artisanal. The value inherent in his work, whether it be from the ideas, materials, workmanship, or execution, demands that at least certain price be paid. These are items to be worn, to be kept, to be yours. Rather than items to be consumed, to be used, and thrown out the next season.

However having said all that, what we all wouldn't do to have prices that are more in line with value..

[/quote]

Sorry if I appeared to be confusing the terms--that's exactly what I meant. [:$] And the value that he assigns to his work in a given year should not be diminished simply because it's no longer his latest.

[xadam]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

[quote user="Avantster"]

I believe by maintaining prices and not going on sale, Carol is, in a way, imparting a view on how he values his own work. I don't think this is un-artisanal, either. In fact, it is this refusal to play the fashion game, the continual cycle of unsatisfying consumption, that makes it all the more artisanal. The value inherent in his work, whether it be from the ideas, materials, workmanship, or execution, demands that at least certain price be paid. These are items to be worn, to be kept, to be yours. Rather than items to be consumed, to be used, and thrown out the next season.

[/quote]

Reasonable points, but limited sales reflects the stores' policies, not CCP's, right?

It seems like it's just a business decision -- A knows that they're the only game in town for CCP/MA/LUC and this limited availability means that people are more willing to throw down for pieces from previous seasons.

[philip nod]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

i think carol just loves basketball.

[xadam]

Re: Carol Christian Poell



[quote user="philip nod"]i think carol just loves basketball.
[/quote]

karlo told me about the ai x ccp overlock sneaks coming fw09, pre-order list is already full.

[philip nod]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

at least the new drop crotch short reflects a drop in prices.

[laika]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

[quote user="xadam"]

Reasonable points, but limited sales reflects the stores' policies, not CCP's, right?

It seems like it's just a business decision -- A knows that they're the only game in town for CCP/MA/LUC and this limited availability means that people are more willing to throw down for pieces from previous seasons.

[/quote]

I could be wrong, but I thought never putting things on sale was a CCP (and CDiem) policy that certain stores choose to not follow.

[Chinorlz]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

Laika's correct... that would be CCP/CDiem policy that stores choose to honor or not to honor.

[xadam]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

[quote user="laika"][quote user="xadam"]

Reasonable points, but limited sales reflects the stores' policies, not CCP's, right?

It seems like it's just a business decision -- A knows that they're the only game in town for CCP/MA/LUC and this limited availability means that people are more willing to throw down for pieces from previous seasons.

[/quote]

I could be wrong, but I thought never putting things on sale was a CCP (and CDiem) policy that certain stores choose to not follow.

[/quote]

Regardless, limited production runs + limited retail outlets + high demand seems to imply that marking these pieces down is a bad business decision. I've derailed the artisan pricing aspect of this discussion which was much more interesting, so I'll stop now.

[Chinorlz]

Re: Carol Christian Poell



I agree with you on that point Adam. It's possible that CCP et al have this also in mind (after all... it still is a business) when they request that their items not be put on sale.

To re-rail the thread... here are some photos of some crazy CCP pieces:

Object dyed leather gloves with silk lining

Pig intestine woven jumper

Alternate version of the rabbit shearling frankenstein glove.