Carol Christian Poell

[dalmatas]

Motelsalieri in rome i think

[drizzly]

i remember they had a special place for CCP that you had to request access to see but i didn't do it when i was there last year.

[docus]

Art it is not. Until his pieces are valued in the art market, he's still a designer.

So, art is defined by being bought and sold in the art market? If Picasso's work has never appeared for sale it wouldn't be art?

[francojean23]

For me, yes. It is by no means the only interpretation, but it is a strong and heavily theorized one, and one that I follow in my own research. Maybe I'm too heavily influenced by the Frankfurt School...

A lot of the drive to view Poell's work as art rather than fashion seems to be the purported "unwearability." However, to me that is more a constructed perception than a reality. Uncomfortable is not the same as unwearable. Personally, I appreciate and enjoy the discomfort, and the ensuing battle to break-in different CCP pieces, some more resistant than others.

Maybe CCP can be said to walk the line between art and fashion, but I refuse to let dissolve any sort of distinction into some early interpretation of postmodern pluralism.

[samuray_]

Curious question and really sorry if its already answer
Anybody can tell me about the handcraft behind his leather gloved jackets?
Thank you

[Marlon]

Well, that's a vague question.
There is many style of gloved leather, different stitching techniques, inserts or no, different leather and dying techniques, etc...

What do you mean exactly?

[samuray_]

yea my question was about this model
LM/2599 GOP
any infos on it ?

[ronald_bne]

Beating a dead horse... (CCP's one)

Art is subjective, as is fashion.
There will never be a consensus on either.

Moving on...

[drizzly]

Folks that have owned ccp boots (side zips, tornados, wrap arounds, etc) for 5 years or longer, i am talking about past seasons, how did your boots hold up? How did they age? can some of you snap pics and show me.
i think it would be cool to see these things. Also other members can refer to this discussion if they are buying and aren't sure which which leather to go with.

[snafu]

He has presented at the Biennale in various country's does that make it art? His horse cannot me warn, and his videos of collections could be considered art? They are/were certainly not like a traditional fashion show, more of an installation.

Now i do not think his garments or shoes, even jewellery are art, i think he is leaning more towards the art world these days with the projects he takes on.

To say he has had no influence on the fashion world is bullshit, he was in every fucking fashion publication out there when he started out, his clothes were heavily praised and in some of the most influential retailers out there... even to this day still are. He is published in various fashion books alongside others. To say he had no influence is bollocks.

The press he got is probably what made him hermit away. He does what he chooses rather than conforms, i doubt he cares what title his clothing/artwork/products are given or categorised.

Also to say he hasn't produced anything new is shit, he works with new mills all the time and stores are still getting their orders. It may not be presented to the public on a stage, but i think that just annoys us, he couldn't care for public criticism.

[Faust]

Ah, snaf, did I get your itty-bitty panties in a bunch again? The burden of proof is on you, buddy. I've made my case and you have not addressed it. "Bullshit and bollocks" is fine criticism though.

Should I dig up some images of Poell's early work that you so celebrate? Fit for that part of population uncharitably called guidos and gigolos. He'd be probably the first one to beg you to never look at them.

999 our of 1000 fashion professionals don't know who he is. End of story.

Now you best unfuck yourself quick. Take off your blinders, there is a wider world of fashion outside. Oh, wait, I forget, you had an INTERNSHIP at Lanvin! That must surely make you an expert.

[snafu]

Sorry isn't this a fashion forum? How many post's does this thread have... is it not more than any other in this category?

i wasn't making this personal.

Lets look at Yohji's work in the 80's or 90's it may not be relevant today, but people have to start somewhere, poell's work was praised in many gay publications but so what. It was praised within the fashion publication industry. Im sure many designers are embraced about the graduate collection they did. However Poell's was stocked in some of the best shops going at the time, everything is relevant.

[BSR]

Should I dig up some images of Poell's early work that you so celebrate? Fit for that part of population uncharitably called guidos and gigolos. He'd be probably the first one to beg you to never look at them.

999 our of 1000 fashion professionals don't know who he is. End of story.

i may be a 'tad' partial here but i can't figure out why there is so much hate re CCP: i mean, it's quite paradoxical that you can't help saying his work is insignificant when CCP is:
***the most discussed brand here (and not only from a consumerist point of view), with RO
***what sells best in most of the shops that are or were praised by many szers (and that, i know for a fact, having discussed with several store owners), even though he hasn't presented a new collection for the last 4 years

i don't know which proportion of fashion professionnals knows ccp's work (i teach at the most well-known french school of fashion and indeed most students and teachers ignore him, but given their knowledge of fashion in general, and their level of education 'tout court' i'm not sure it is a valuable criterion), but at least, here, on SZ, CCP's work seems very relevant to many people, and i find it rather surprising that you despise this matter of fact as it were simply the vice of minority of geeks.

[upsilonkng]

not sure why u guys are getting so mad.. I think most ccp fans would agree he's basically out of the loop, that's not a bad thing. though I'm not sure this could continue for another 4 years of just different color derbies and more aluminum on knees and elbows, the demand has slowed so i think soon he will have to do something and i don't mean yellow derbies/tornados/drips i mean make some new shit.
do u guys want CCP to actively participate in fashion ? that's part of the draw i think for people paying big bucks it's because there isn't a sale and a next season version to drag down the value. Ur current season all the time, as long as that season started 2008, it's like a fashion vacuum w/ plastic and aluminum. I'm starting to think of him as the Jordan Brand of darkness,minor color variations on the 15 models that sell and nothing else.

[Faust]

We've had this conversation before, but basically I don't consider Poell relevant to fashion at all. He is a hermit that works in his own little workshop - he does not work in fashion. He has had no influence on fashion and he never will. He is not Westwood, Gaultier, Margiela, McQueen, Demeulemeester, Kawakubo, Yamamoto, Helmut Lang, Raf Simons, Rick Owens, or Hedi Slimane. You get my drift?

I'm just gonna quote myself in case y'all missed the point. Until someone addresses this post, there is not much to discuss.

BSR, No doubt SZ (the forum) wields influence, but it's by and large in the men's fashion avant-garde (excuse the term, I don't like it myself), hardly a sphere that will go down in the history of fashion.

But, I don't hate him, not sure where you get that from. He is undoubtedly talented. But that's not the subject of this conversation.