FOOD!

[theetruscan]

Re: FOOD!

[quote user="xeefus"]

Wow... the answers are great, I'll hope I can go try it all. Thanks a lot danieldy and thetruscan (? hope I got your nickname right...)</p>

I'm not really sure if I'm a big fan of wine, but I can try it if it's not too expensive. I don't dislike wine but I don't drink it very often. :)</p>

I was also wondering a little about yakiniku, which is originally from Korea but is served in Japan too as I've understood it, which is served like this in sweden (at least where I live): grilled kobe beef, some kind of sauce with soy, apple cider, sesame seeds, not sure about all the ingredients though but it has got a kind of sweet-salty taste which I really like. But, I can imagine it's not close to what I'll find over in Japan right? I guess there's a little more variety there though...</p>

</p>

Thanks again
</p>

[/quote]</p>

There are lots of places where the customer cooks meat. Sukiyaki, shabu shabu, and various yakiniku spots. For Yakiniku itself, I would do one of the set menus at Chez Aburiya. The fancier/more expensive ones are more interesting. It's not only yakiniku, there's also some meat served already cooked and some meat served raw (raw beef liver is kinda gross in my opinion). Yakiniku sauces vary widely, and you'll get a different one for every meat at Aburiya. Also, they do scallops, jamon iberico, and various cow meats.</p>

If you're not in japan, and not paying at least $30/ounce, what you are eating when you get "Kobe Beef" is raised to specification in California, but slaughtered in Kobe. It isn't even remotely close to Kobe beef. It's nice, but it's mostly raised by Harris Ranch, which uses antibiotics and hormones to some extent, then tries to call their meat "Better than Natural*." When you're in Japan, go to a proper steak specialist if you want Kobe beef, order a few ounces (most places literally sell by the ounce), and discover why it's famous. </p>

For specific recommendations of other foods.</p>

Sushi: Cheap - Sushi Dai (the one INSIDE Tsukiji, not the one nearby) open 6 am to 1 PM, expect to wait an hour in line. Expensive Sukiyabashi Jiro - there are two, one run by the father, one run by the son. People argue over which is better. Father is approaching 85, son approaching 60, so both have been at it a long time.</p>

For Kaiseki, my favorite of the ones I did was actually quite cheap (fixed prices of 80/100 for 7-8 courses, photoset missing a course was Esaki above). The chef likes slightly bolder flavors than many japanese chefs and it treats my boorish western palate quite nicely.</p>

Will get in touch with my brother about the other recommendations.
</p>

[theetruscan]

Re: FOOD!

[quote user="wire.artist"]

those 30+ eur fixed price spots are the place to go in Paris nowadays. Thanks for the addresses[B]
</p>

[/quote]</p>

That's kind of crazy. They've been the happening thing for at least 8 years now. I would have thought something else would have taken their place. But they're so great, I dunno what it would be.
</p>

[Johnny]

Re: FOOD!



thanks again. i've booked bistro paul bert, since it's just around the corner from where we're staying. had been thinking about aux lyonnais, but my wife didn't fancy it much.</P>


anyone been to pierre gagnaire? i hear the startersstart at90 euros!</P>

[Real Real]

Re: FOOD!

There's a place called L'Oeuf Mayo, good and relatively cheap, always packed, that's near the Palais Royal.



Mon Vieil Ami is an Alsatian place on the Ile Saint-Louis that is great and not particularly expensive for the quality. Very comfortable, nice people.

[Diego]

Re: FOOD!

I'll get into the kitchen later today to make some Lao pho. I'm hungry

[airboyair]

Re: FOOD!

Gnocco in NYC and Sardinia in Miami [Y]

[ddohnggo]

Re: FOOD!

you make your own pho? one of my vietnemese friends said that making pho is pretty arduous. man, i'm hungry.

[Diego]

Re: FOOD!



Not really Joey, the hard thing is finding star anise here in my city.</p>

edit- Found it. </p>

[Faust]

Re: FOOD!

NYC Restaurant week is on. Pretty week line up, but I managed to snag dinner reservations at Aquavit.

[theaddict]

Re: FOOD!

[quote user="theetruscan"][quote user="xeefus"]

Wow... the answers are great, I'll hope I can go try it all. Thanks a lot danieldy and thetruscan (? hope I got your nickname right...)</p>

I'm not really sure if I'm a big fan of wine, but I can try it if it's not too expensive. I don't dislike wine but I don't drink it very often. :)</p>

I was also wondering a little about yakiniku, which is originally from Korea but is served in Japan too as I've understood it, which is served like this in sweden (at least where I live): grilled kobe beef, some kind of sauce with soy, apple cider, sesame seeds, not sure about all the ingredients though but it has got a kind of sweet-salty taste which I really like. But, I can imagine it's not close to what I'll find over in Japan right? I guess there's a little more variety there though...</p>

</p>

Thanks again
</p>

[/quote]</p>

There are lots of places where the customer cooks meat. Sukiyaki, shabu shabu, and various yakiniku spots. For Yakiniku itself, I would do one of the set menus at Chez Aburiya. The fancier/more expensive ones are more interesting. It's not only yakiniku, there's also some meat served already cooked and some meat served raw (raw beef liver is kinda gross in my opinion). Yakiniku sauces vary widely, and you'll get a different one for every meat at Aburiya. Also, they do scallops, jamon iberico, and various cow meats.</p>

<u>If you're not in japan, and not paying at least $30/ounce, what you are eating when you get "Kobe Beef" is raised to specification in California, but slaughtered in Kobe.</u> It isn't even remotely close to Kobe beef. It's nice, but it's mostly raised by Harris Ranch, which uses antibiotics and hormones to some extent, then tries to call their meat "Better than Natural*." When you're in Japan, go to a proper steak specialist if you want Kobe beef, order a few ounces (most places literally sell by the ounce), and discover why it's famous. </p>

For specific recommendations of other foods.</p>

Sushi: Cheap - Sushi Dai (the one INSIDE Tsukiji, not the one nearby) open 6 am to 1 PM, expect to wait an hour in line. Expensive Sukiyabashi Jiro - there are two, one run by the father, one run by the son. People argue over which is better. Father is approaching 85, son approaching 60, so both have been at it a long time.</p>

For Kaiseki, my favorite of the ones I did was actually quite cheap (fixed prices of 80/100 for 7-8 courses, photoset missing a course was Esaki above). The chef likes slightly bolder flavors than many japanese chefs and it treats my boorish western palate quite nicely.</p>

Will get in touch with my brother about the other recommendations.
</p>

[/quote]</p>

How about Kobe beef outside of japan but for 80? for 200gr? What i heard is that the real Kobe beef is so rare it is enough to cover the demand in Kobe itself. But is all the Kobe beef outside of Japan really that antibiotic/hormon contaminated stuff? I never saw 30USD Kobe here at least...the last time i ordered 'Kobe, it was 80?. </p>

</p>

[maldoror]

Re: FOOD!



200g = 7.025 oz</p>

$30 x 7.025 oz = $210.75 = 132.80?</p>

. . .</p>

in general, I've never really worried about getting the california stuff outside of the US, but maybe I'm wrong not to? I also didn't think they actually transported the california raised beef to japan to be slaughtered, although I really like the mental image of a plane filled with cows.</p>

@ theetruscan</p>

I just went back through your kaiseki photos. pleasure and pain became one / they tore my soul apart.
</p>

probably the greatest meal of my life was at hyotei in kyoto, and it went so far beyond the food itself into the particular details of the architecture, the experience, the architecture of the experience, like the tree growing through the middle of the 400 year old private room in which the meal was served. IMHO there is a unique intimacy of relation between food and space/place, a essential element of history in which the greatest kaiseki restaurants are rooted, that exceeds anything found in europe or anywhere else. this is not to say that e.g. taillevent could be duplicated in manhattan, but that a person could come much closer to taillevent than hyotei.
</p>

I'm also seriously jealous that you went to jiro.
</p>

[Real Real]

Re: FOOD!

You can get real Kobe beef outside of Japan, but like Xeefus said, the price for real Kobe is going to be around $30 an ounce. The vast majority of what you see listed as Kobe is actually Wagyu, or kobe-style beef. Some of it is quite good, much of it is natural.

Good wagyu is definitely fattier/richer/more marbled than regular prime beef, but I've never seen wagyu with the level of marbling that true Kobe beef has.

I don't like wagyu (or kobe) that much. The richness overwhelms the flavor of the beef...I'd generally rather have a well-aged prime steak. At least Kobe has a sort of absurd appeal, given just how incredibly rich it is. Wagyu, to me, is kind of neither here nor there. I don't think it's worth the money.

[theaddict]

Re: FOOD!



ahh ok, i always thought that wayu would be the race and Kobe just states the city or area it comes from, but that the original wagyu would have been domesticated in Kobe. </p>

And is it true that the people in Kobe dont grill the meat but steam or cook it?</p>

[theetruscan]

Re: FOOD!

[quote user="theaddict"]

ahh ok, i always thought that wayu would be the race and Kobe just states the city or area it comes from, but that the original wagyu would have been domesticated in Kobe. </p>

And is it true that the people in Kobe dont grill the meat but steam or cook it?</p>

[/quote]</p>

Errr, I see I started a little thing. Whoops.</p>

Wagyu is the breed, that's correct, but the way it is raised is hugely important. Much is raised correctly outside japan, though it doesn't seem to approach the real thing (I think it's raised better than some but not right), much isn't. There was a fairly significant uproar a few years back about calfs shipped to california and raised in california being shipped back to kobe to be slaughtered there and legally labeled Kobe beef. There are plenty of dishonest people who will sell Wagyu as Kobe beef. I'm sure some of it is excellent, some of it (Harris Ranch again comes to mind) is nothing special. I completely believe that real Kobe beef is available outside japan.</p>

Regarding cooking style, I've not had beef in Kobe, but I've had Kobe beef in Japan. It was grilled, but over lower heat for longer. I think because the marbling means the fat needs to get a little meltier, so the normal method of hot searing doesn't work so well. Perhaps in Kobe itself they steam it, but that's certainly not a Japan-wide thingl
</p>

</p>

</p>

[theaddict]

Re: FOOD!

cheers, now i am hungry again...