NBA Playoffs.

[zamb]

Zamb, you quoted my post and stated something about Nonsensical?I was stating facts was a not? Hmmmm.....Facts sonny boy, can't argue with that. This isn't about winning an argument. There is no argument. If this has turned into Kobe VS MJ, just google greatest nba players of all-time and most will agree... that's all I'm saying.

Beyond that nonsensical comment which makes no sense I pretty much agree with most of what Zamb said. Chris Webber though, really? Okay Tyra. I'd toss a forgotten player with a crappy team - Dirk Nowitzki- in there somewhere.
btw, we all know that teams win championships but refs do too. How many people want to bet that this thing won't go 7 games?

and hamham-
I guess I am just hating because i hate when people say "youre just hating". Yeah, Im just hatin.
And no, Kobe didn't come out in Game 3. Why do you think everyone is saying "Kobe's gonna have a big game this series."? Because he hasn't had one yet. Nice numbers there huh? But typical of Kobe Lovers they fail to mention how he got those numbers - 10 for 29!!!?? Really? 1 for 7 from 3 land.?? Really? 4 assists! Wow.
Listen carefully -
In the ENTIRE 4th quarter Kobe made ONE, count it, ONE shot. He had a couple free throws but he made ONE shot. Leave that weak game at home son.
And "Phoenix game where he air balled? Please look at the defenders. Look at the time left on the clock. "
Okay, I did that.....he airballed.
"Kobe not greatest laker all time? Why does that matter when comparing MJ to Kobe (although most of us are avoiding)?"
Uh...because if you aren't the greatest Laker of all-time, you can't exactly be the greatest PLAYER of all-time. Hello?!
"Spurs the greatest in the last 5 years? (Maybe from 2003-2007) but definately not from 2008-2010 when all of them got old n injured."
Well they've won two in the last 5 years....so yeah, best of the last 5 years. Come on, simple math, get on my level. Facts.
I was stating facts. Period.

Michael Jordan was the greatest and LeBron will eventually take that from him (maybe). I think there is a difference between a dominant player and a great player because Shaq was pretty damn dominant but he pretty much sucks in some aspects. In other words, Shaq dominated the game during his championship years, much more than Kobe, but Kobe is the better baller for sure. I agree that Kareem is the greatest Laker of all-time, certainly above Kobe, but again, we're talking about dominant and great player. He wasn't the greatest shooter, didn't even shoot 75 percent from the foul line. He was great for sure, but anyway, I'm rooting for the Celtics, Im a huge Ray Allen fan and I have come around to like Rondo and even Doc Rivers. Paul Pierce is the man and a true Laker Killer.

It is not the lack of facts that made me say the discussion is nonsensical, it is the misuse of facts. Stating a fact to defend an argument, where the fact have no relevance to the point being made is in a way..............er, nonsensical. I hope you are not offended by this, I am just saying that it doesnt make sense, to use team accomplishments to rate one player over another when there are factors beyond a given players control in a team game..........
I dont have to Google anything, i've watch Jordan and i've watched Kobe and the others, Google isn't going to tell me anything that my eyes haven't seen

to say that Kobe, cannot be compared to Micheal Jordan because Jordan never lost in the Finals is really pointless. If it were relevant then we could say Bill Russel is the best because he played thirteen seasons and won Eleven Championships. or that Horry is better than Jordan because he won seven rings The reality is we cant, and we can't because the circumstances were different. It is very possible that Kobe could win six or seven championships, but he will never win Six MVP's how does that play into the discussion?

Jordan played Seven seasons before he won his first championship, Kobe Won his first in his Fourth year, how does that play into the Discussion?

None of them won anything without Phil Jackson, how does that play into the discussion?

And yes, CHRIS WEBBER, how easy it is for many have us to forget, Webber had the ability to impact the game in so many ways.........He along with Divac (and Possibly Sabonis) are three of the best passing post players the modern game has seen. That Sacramento team was a joy to watch, they should've won a championship, and in my mind was denied that by bad/ corrupt refereeing against the lakers inthe 2002 western conference finals

there are three reasons Nowitzki is not on my list
1. he is not a great post player
2. he is not a great rebounder, which he should be for his size and the position he plays
3. He is a defensive liability.

except for Kobe, who is a guard and doesnt have these as his primary responsiblity, the others are at least good defenders and above average rebounders, Shaq is the only one with inconsistent rebounding, but could be a great defender when he made the effort.

what is required for one to be considered the greatest player in a franchise?
the lakers are a storied organization, from Mikhan, to Wilt, to Kareem Magic, Shaq, etc, Kobe is still playing, there is no point in discussing if he is the greatest Laker at this point, as I have said before, he is a better scorer than Jordan, but i dont know if he is a better player. in the same way Dirk is a better scorer than Duncan, but certainly not a better player. There is more to the game than scoring.......................but people too easily and often intentionally forget that.

[zamb]

Yes, he did go 10/29 in game 3, and 1/7 on 3 point line and have a weak 4th. But please define not showing up? Shouldn't it mean: 0-13, 2points,4 rebs, 2 ast in 42 mins. No hate on Rayray, but THATS not showing up

Please read over what i wrote. I was never arguing about Kobe being Player of all time. I wasn't even trying to argue anything about Kobe vs. MJ. The only thing I did say was Kobe's ability to sell fakes and his foot work was probably better than MJ.

You also said kobe was no where to be seen for the past 10 years cause timmy D was getting all the rings.
Guess Karl Malone was pretty weaksauce while MJ keeps on beating his team? Does that make karl malone NOT an all time great?

You said Spurs was the best team in the last 5 years.
Heres some facts as well: Spurs was beated by lakers in 2008 in 5, lost to Mavs in 09 first round, lost to Suns 4-0 this year. Won in 2007 again Cavs who had lebron, and only lebron. (I might as well call that WEAK also) To be the best team in the last 5 years, they must be strong every single year right?

I guess what I'm trying to say is, being dominant or an all time great, doesn't mean that person/team is having a big game every game/season. Kobe is definitely ONE of the all time great guards when his career ends.

(That team usa stuff from before didn't even matter too, competition has increased so much from those times)

i would agree with him and say the Spurs have been the best team in the last five years. they won in 2005 and 2007, so they have two of the last five championships, with lakers, Boston and Miami having the next three, they've been in the playoffs every year, and only been knocked out in the first round for the first time last year.

To argue against the spurs because the Cavs were weak, is to ignore the battles played in the western Conference in order to get to the finals. This is why I wish the format would change from its present structure, as it allows for a weak team to be in the Finals as a conference representative.

the Spurs are still contenders, they have another two years before you can say they are really two old. they are one good post player away from winning another championship............


All of these LeBron etc, have a lot to worry about, the landscape in the NBA can change very quickly, lets see what happens with this Free agent class. the Lakers have a lot to worry about with Bynum's long term health, as their defense rest on him. Also I would worry more about a 6'10 all world talent called Kevin Durant, if I were Kobe or LeBron..............

[laughed]

The only reason why I think it is valid that Jordan did not lose in a Finals is because - it's the Finals. It's what counts. Jordan led his team, where Bob was just a clutch shooter who will never make the HOF. (I hope he does, I love the guy) Also, in comparing stats, MJ has Kobe beat in every single category as far as percentage is concerned.
The fact is Kobe just hasn't been dominant in this series, and he wasn't two years ago either.
Kobe won before MJ but that team was led by Shaq, hence the finals MVP winner. Which means that in my opinion if he does win six (which he won't), he only has one finals MVP to his name - he only has one MVP to his name for regular season. Anyway, I could go on about Kobe but honestly, it's such a tired argument because I would take LeBron over Kobe any day.

One of the reason why I hate the Lakers is because one of those chamionships came, as zamb stated, in the most rigged basketball game/series I have ever seen in my life. There is no doubt that that game was rigged and had the Kings won, they would have had a ring. I agree, that Kings team is probably in my top 5 of favorite NBA teams to watch, Vlade, CWebb, Doug Christie, Matt Barnes, the clutch outside shooting from Bobby Jackson, and Peja. Those were the days. I think that we may see a repeat of that bad officiating in game 7 this year, which if we do, I will never watch the rigged sport again. There's actually a great video on youtube if I recall about that game.

Dirk gets bashed a lot and I am a huge Mavs fan, but he is the greatest 7 footer shooter to ever play. WIsh he would be a little more tough though.

I think when discussing the greastest player in franchise history it is about one thing - rings and winning. So I would certainly say that Shaq was the better Laker of that era. And we're talking about the Lakers, so Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor.

My all-time starting five would look something like this - more of a video game team, players that i like and greatness.

Coach - Don Nelson
Assistant Coach - Gregg Popovich

G: Michael Jordan (duh)
G: Reggie Miller (attitude, clutch, villain, and 3-point specialist)
F: Larry Bird (greatest shooter of all-time)
F: Dennis Rodman (greatest rebounder ever)
C: Bill Russell (11 championships, nuff said)

Second team -

G: King James (freak of nature, greatest driver of all-time)
G: Ray Allen (beautiful shot)
F: Dirk Nowitzki (tim duncan and dirk as forwards, now that's a team)
F: Tim Duncan (yeah, he's a forward on this team)
C: David Robinson (twin towers baby and the nicest guy in the world)

Honorable Mention : John Starks, Dikembe Mutombo, Mark Price, Jason Kidd, Paul Pierce, Scottie Pippen, Arvydas Sabonis, Shawn Kemp, Dr. J, Steve Nash, Thunder Dan, Amare Stoudemire, Oscar Robertson, Robert Horry, Mitch Richmond,
Toni Kukoč, etc.

Greatest team of all-time
1995-96 Bulls.

[MaxM]

Ok this is getting ridiculous.

As a baller i love watching Kobe and am just dazzled by the variety and smoothness of his moves.
Period.

[DHC]

Need some help here.

Suggestions for a really nice place to catch the game around Central Park.

Thanks in advance!

[zamb]

Need some help here.

Suggestions for a really nice place to catch the game around Central Park.

Thanks in advance!

you're in New York?.............. or is there a Central park in LA,?
Please tell me your in LA as i would be really mad with you if you're in NY and i didn't know

[DHC]

Haha...No, I'm not in New York. A friend of mine arrives in your fair city today and would really like to catch the game. He's staying in the immediate vicinity, so I thought I'd ask you guys for suggestions. He's an older gentleman, so a place with good energy without being overcrowded or a nice lounge type place to catch the game would probably be ideal.
Trust me Zamb. If I were arriving in NY today, you'd have known about it last week! :)

[zamb]

Haha...No, I'm not in New York. A friend of mine arrives in your fair city today and would really like to catch the game. He's staying in the immediate vicinity, so I thought I'd ask you guys for suggestions. He's an older gentleman, so a place with good energy without being overcrowded or a nice lounge type place to catch the game would probably be ideal.
Trust me Zamb. If I were arriving in NY today, you'd have known about it last week! :)

Alright man,
its interesting how perception can be so different from reality.

Ive never been there, but this seems like a good place to go

http://www.mickeymantles.com/

seems like a place that would be good for an older gentleman.

[laughed]

Game 5 prediction - Celtics by 15.

[ddohnggo]

Highly unlikely

[endersgame]

ricardo the busboy 4 MVP...

[laughed]

that busboy stuff was nice. so first half celtics up by 6, on pace to win by 12. so 15 or so. ehhh...i'll take it.
oh, and kobe has a dominate 10 points and 4 turnovers.

[ddohnggo]

being up by 6 at half does NOT mean you're going to be on a pace to win by 12. that's not how basketball works.

[zamb]

being up by 6 at half does NOT mean you're going to be on a pace to win by 12. that's not how basketball works.

That's true, but it seems to be turning out that way tonight

Laughed seems to be on the verge of becoming a laughing prophet............maybe he had a bet,
the laughing prophet might make a profit

[laughed]

ha, i like that - the laughing prophet indeed!
well if you take away that scoring run that Lakers went on - all free throws that were complete bs - that wouldve worked out just fine...-- celtics win! YES! this series is a wrap! I loved seeing paul rip that ball of that little snake kobe's hands. Kobe should hit the weights this offseason. Btw, what were the Lakers thinking letting all that time drip off the clock - terrible end of game defense. That was horrible! That was actually a pretty decent game, sure there were about 10 horrible calls that went in the Lakers' favor but better than usual. Kobe is such a crybaby. Dropping those F bombs and pumping his fist in anger. i think they may even take this in 6.