Margiela x H&M ???

[525252]

yes, indeed! but why aren't we hearing more about such developments?

We don't hear about many small locally run businesses because they are small and locally run!

is democratization of fashion necessarily, as Faust would have it, its "bastardization"?

well yes! If we think of its origination, democracy as a concept was swell in ancient Rome given women and slaves weren't counted as people. Democracy now: swell if we don't count bajillionaires and politicians as people seeing as their existence points out how powerless everyone else is.. In summary, democracy is a false and unattainable ideal.

525252, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think trends in fashion aren't necessarily a meta-fashion, since they don't have to be based on the conceptual function, but can be created in entirely different ways.

agreed! Just elaborating a little more: the distinction is that we have trends and then separately, the phenomenon of trends (philosophically speaking in terms of phenomenology)
so the observation is that trends are aesthetic and phenomenon of trends (qua trends?) are conceptual. The latter is an attribute of meta-fashion, we could say it "transcends" clothing because concept is not practical.

I have mentioned this before, and thanks Rilu for further clarifying my point: we know conceptual clothing is not necessarily unwearable but for the sake of delineating concepts "clothing" from "fashion" from "meta-fashion", we will argue that they are.

H&MxMMM is essentially conceptual-ness being aestheticised.
This is where the mindfuck is for me: meta fashion is now fashion

disregarding overtly practical clothing such as uniforms and workwear cause thats a whole other discussion, when fashion is designed as in fashion design (go away Captain Obvious) so in fashion design practicality is secondary to aesthetic and aesthetic is secondary to concept.

Hyper capitalism means H&M can even aestheticise that which trancends "just clothing"; turn "conceptual" into a "look" and really sell nothing.

Last of all: Macro, was that unsubtle sarcasm or confused sincerity or both?

[525252]

I beg to disagree if we treat it as an ideal towards which we strive and use in order to fix things in the status quo.

democracy is the status quo
if you can call fast fashion "democratic" it sure helps with sales.

I know a guy whose business plan is to get some expensive coffee bean that is extracted from animal feces and flood the market with cheaper poo beans (without any consideration of the social and environmental impact on the small community in Papua New Guinea that sources them). Coffee sourced from animal shit isn't exactly in high demand but because its expensive he wanted to make it "accessible", "let everyone have this new awesome experience" "and oh yeah this would bring in a shit ton of money"

This guy does not give a shit about coffee, he's never even tried this excrement coffee, and here he is, spreading the word in the name of democracy.

sound awfully familiar? I don't think we're talking about the same democracy..

and i'm actually scared to ask what you'd suggest instead

Communist dictatorship of course

no not really ha, but hnestly if anyone was to be in a position where the question of democracy was concerned, I'd only suggest they really study it. (instead the word just gets thrown around)

as for the second half of your post, we're saying the same thing but I put too much salt and ruined the cake

"for the sake of delineating concepts" is meant to say the same thing as "treating the distinction as an analytic one only"

sorry for wrecking our metaphorical cake

[hurricane08]

"Luxury houses and brands are meant to be exceptional by any means and not settle for the average. They cannot run the precise wrong race, but rather [should] stick to a strict and dignified etiquette for their fashion developments, assets, and branding.." Hedi Slimane

[CARMEN]

NYC party is tomorrow night. can't wait. gonna buy the whole collection. fuck the haters. imma ball out on cheap ass mass produced painted boots and faux shearling for the winter. dont worry rilu, no animals were harmed in the making of this collection. sustainability in the name of progress. should provide an obnxious counterbalance in my wardrobe to the many dead animal hides i've collected in the name of the hegemonic superiority that guides our time tested food chain.

this is all surprisingly beautiful. almost indistinguishable from the main line? good pieces, strange pieces. i want the leather belt jacket

an economically friendly reproduction of an artisanal piece made purely from vintage belts? meta-tastic

[bryantyj]

With everything said here, Im still interested to see whats the collection going to look like in person. The Belted jacket really looks nice but the price for a colab is kinda ridiculous.

I have just looked through the pictures for the launch in NY.

http://www.lamodadubai.com/2012/10/c...h-in-new-york/

A little over the top. MMM is really going to total opposite direction. Since when did they ever do celebrity endorsements. I wonder what Martin Margiela might be feeling right now.

[fncyths]

I wonder what Martin Margiela might be feeling right now.

This about sums it up I'm sure...

The collection is total shit.

[zamb]

Since when did they ever do celebrity endorsements. I wonder what Martin Margiela might be feeling right now.

Martin Margiela is rolling over in his grave.........

Watching all of this feels like I'm at the funeral of a person I knew intimately and nothing at the funeral bears any representation of the valued the person held while living

[CARMEN]

especially friendly for the kids working in sweatshops

that piece looks kind of difficult to construct. i'm sure they had to use teens for it, at least

how is the collection 'shit'? they're re-creations from the main line. not necessarily inventive, but you can't say that it looks bad without sounding like a sore elitist

[van Diem]

[crtk001]

\
well yes! If we think of its origination, democracy as a concept was swell in ancient Rome given women and slaves weren't counted as people. Democracy now: swell if we don't count bajillionaires and politicians as people seeing as their existence points out how powerless everyone else is.. In summary, democracy is a false and unattainable ideal.

I agree, and probably should have specified earlier. When I talk about democratization in a lot of ways it is a bastardization that I, ideologically, find necessary though I know its really unobtainable. It's like saying, "I'm an idealistic Marxist but a pragmatic Socialist." My definition of democracy comes awfully close to anarchist, it teeters around Marxist markets and the ideal of self-sufficiency.

The more I study and work the less concerned I become with praxis, I'd much rather just exist in this world of pure idealism.

[blacktulip]

Watching all of this feels like I'm at the funeral of a person I knew intimately and nothing at the funeral bears any representation of the valued the person held while living

Sounds like almost every sensible person's funeral ever. Just saying.

[fncyths]

how is the collection 'shit'? they're re-creations from the main line. not necessarily inventive, but you can't say that it looks bad without sounding like a sore elitist

You're totally right. It looks beautiful. Looks can be deceiving.

It's a matter of compromise that's at stake here. Compromise of aesthetics, purism, ethics. Total meltdown. MMM is known for it's rebellious nature that has fought against the grain of the "fashion machine" for years. Now times have changed. There was a sort of unspoken code that the Antwerp Six worked with to propel their manifesto if you will, many feel like that code has been broken by this collection.

There's no sense in being sore. All that went in behind this campaign has a sour stench...that looks alone can't mask...

You can take Lana del Ray as a perfect example. She's managed to manipulate the "look" of a 50s / 60s starlet but lacks all substance. Total substance.

I'll take Nico over that tart any day of the week....

[CARMEN]

You're totally right. It looks beautiful.
You can take Lana del Ray as a perfect example. She's managed to manipulate the "look" of a 50s / 60s starlet but lacks all substance. Total substance.

I'll take Nico over that tart any day of the week....

that 'tart', eh? its quite apparent that your opinion of her is what's lacking substance. you've listened to what -- 2, maybe 3 songs? don't be fooled by her beauty. as you say, looks can be quite deceiving.

also -- MMM might not be at the helm any longer, but that's not to say that he doesn't exercise some sort of control over his namesake... right?

maybe this is funny to him. he seems like he'd be a funny man, in a bipolar kind of way

[Heirloom]

Martin Margiela is rolling over in his grave.........

Is he dead?!

[bryantyj]

Just an opinion, From what I know, MMM was never really able to translate its brand ethos into sales. I mean it seems like highly conceptual brands that decide to operate on a scale to suit both the mainstream and the niche market, never succeeded. It has come close to bankruptcy before even.

H&M mainly targets the young. And those within that age group who know MMM (because every fashion institution looks back at his work) were probably born in the 90's which were his iconic years and never really got the chance to purchase this pieces. And those that didnt know MMM probably now think that he is a super cool designer because of all this hype that H&M has been getting.

Honestly, I think the latter group of people mention thinks that Margiela still designs for MMM... which is just sad.