your body your health

[jcotteri]

ABS I like your running schedule. I am getting pretty crazy about it at the moment. I usually run like this:

Monday 6 km, Tuesday 6 km, Wednesday 8km, Thursday 11km, Friday 8km and Saturday and Sunday I may or may not run.

I am trying to experiment at the moment and find the right amount of running each day. I don't usually like to run the same distance because it gets a bit monotonous, so generally I just try and run further each evening and run less on Friday because I play Squash that day as well.

I am hoping to bring myself up to running about 60 km a week after a few more months.

[Acid, Bitter and Sad]

At the peak of my running craze, I was running 4-6 times a week....min 15km per run. I was able to keep this up for quite awhile, but it got to a point where it became more an exercise in endurance rather than the joy of running.
Since I got started practising yoga, I've been alternating my yoga and running days, and it's been great! My legs are fresher on the running days, and i'm able to cover longer distances and enjoy the runs more.
Btw, if you haven't already read Born to Run by Christopher McDougall, i highly recommend it. Truly an enjoyable and insightful read!

[cjbreed]

A myth... you burn nearly as much calories when asleep compared to being awake (doing sports aside). Brain & body is working nevertheless!

i'm about to let this topic go for a minute, but i think it is being misunderstood as being more extreme than it actually is, possibly because i used the phrase "cutting carbs completely" when i should have said "eating the right carbs", but less of them at night, if any. it is not a diet. it is simply managing your calorie intake to suit your lifestyle. to me this is a much more simple and logical line of thought than it seems.

here:
The Within Day Energy balance approach not only backs up the practice of eating small meals approximately every three hours, AND the practice of "nutrient timing" (which is why pre and post workout nutrition is such a popular topic today, and rightly so). it also suggests that we should adjust our energy intake according to our activity.

Let's make the assumption most people come home from work, then plop on the couch in front of the TV all night. Let's also assume that the majority of people go to bed late in the evening, usually around 10 pm, 11 pm or midnight. Therefore, night-time is the period during which the least energy is being expended.

If this is true, then it's logical to suggest that one should not eat huge amounts of calories at night, especially right before bed because that would provide excess fuel at a time when it is not needed. The result is increased likelihood of fat storage.

From the within day energy balance perspective, the advice to eat less at night makes complete sense. Of course it also suggests that if you do intense training at night, then you should eat more at night to support that activity.

Those stuck on a 24 hour model of energy expenditure would say timing of energy intake doesn't matter as long as the total calories for the day are in a deficit. But who ever decided that the body operates on a 24-hour "DAY".

Try this test (or not!):

Eat a 2500 calorie per day diet, with nothing for breakfast, nothing before or after your morning workout, 500 calories for lunch, 750 calories for dinner and 1250 calories before bedtime.

Now compare that to the SAME 2500 calorie diet with 6 small meals of approximately 420 calories per meal and then tweak those meal sizes a bit so that you eat a little more before and after your workout and a little less later at night.

Both are 2500 calories per day. According to "a calorie is just a calorie"
and "24 hour energy balance" thinking, both diets will produce the same results in performance, health and body composition. But will they?

Does your body really do a calculation at midnight and add up the day's totals like a business man when he closes out the register at night? It's a lot more logical that energy is stored in real time and energy is burned in real time, rather than accounted for at the end of each 24 hour period.

24 hour energy balance is just one way to academically sort calories so you can understand it and count it in convenient units of time. This has it's uses, as in calculating a daily calorie intake level for menu planning purposes

the timing is inconsequential, the type is more important. generally slow-digested carbs are ok except right after training when you want something that can be quickly absorbed.

For instance, toasting bread can help slow digestion as opposed to eating bread out of the package. additionally, steadfast rules have to be altered sometimes. I train from 8:30-9:30 and have 50g of simple carbs immediately after. how can you not ingest carbs after a certain hour if you train at night?

i think if u train at night then it is a different story, as noted above...

[cjbreed]

and with respect to carbs specifically:

Ok, but enough about calories, what about the individual macronutrients?

Some people dont simply suggest eating fewer calories at night, they suggest you take your calorie cut specifically from CARBS rather than from all macronutrients evenly across the board. Is there anything to it?

Well, there's more than one theory. The most commonly quoted theory has to do with insulin.

The late bodybuilding guru Dan Duchaine was once asked by a competitor,

"I want to get cut up for an upcoming contest. Should I eat at night?
I heard I shouldn't eat carbs after 6:00 pm."

Duchaine answered:

"It's true that insulin sensitivity is lowest at night. Let's discuss what is happening in your body that makes it dislike carbs at night. Cortisol, a catabolic hormone, is highest at night. When cortisol is elevated, your muscle cell insulin sensitivity is lowered."

More recently, David Barr wrote a tip on "lower carbs at night" for the bodybuilding website, T-Nation. He said:

"Even when bulking, you don't want to start scarfing down Pop Tarts before you go to bed. Our muscle insulin sensitivity decreases as the day wears on, meaning that we're more likely to generate a large insulin response from ingesting carbs. Stated differently, we're more predisposed to adding fat mass by eating carbs at night because our body doesn't handle the hormone insulin as well as it does earlier in the day."

Mind you, Barr is a not a "voodoo" guy; he is a respected scientist who also happens to be well known as a "dogma destroyer" and "myth buster". and Duchaine, although he had a shady past and some run-ins with the law, was nevertheless highly respected by nearly all in the bodybuilding world for his ahead-of-his-time nutrition wisdom.

As a result of this advice, word got out in the bodybuilding and fitness community that you should eat fewer carbs at night. Real world results and the "test of time" have suggested that this is an effective strategy.

I also don't know a single nutrition or training expert who doesn't agree that insulin management and improvement of insulin sensitivity aren't effective approaches in the management of body fat.

However, it's only fair to point out that not all scientists agree that cutting carbs at night will have any major real world impact on fat loss. Dr. Benardot, for example, doesn't think there's much to it. He says that exercisers and athletes in particular, usually have excellent glycemic control, so the ratio of macronutrients should not be as much of an issue as the total energy balance in relation to energy needs at a particular time.

Regardless of which side of the "carbs at night" debate you lean towards, if you consider the within day energy balance principle, it make perfect sense not to eat large, calorie-dense meals late at night before bedtime.

Keep in mind of course, that cutting back on your calories and or carbs at night makes the most sense in the context of a fat loss program, especially if fat loss has been slow. It's quite possible that I might give the exact opposite advice (eat a big meal before bed) to the skinny "ectomorph" who is having a hard time gaining muscular body weight.

Also consider that this doesn't necessarily mean eating nothing at night; it may simply mean eating smaller meals or emphasizing lean protein and green veggies (or a small protein shake) at night.

Many programs suggest a specific time when you should eat your last meal of the day. However, I'd suggest avoiding an absolute cut off time, such as "no food or no carbs after 6 pm, etc," because people go to bed at different times, and maintenance of steady blood sugar and an optimal hormonal balance even at night are also important goals.

A more personalized suggestion is to cut off food intake 3 hours before bedtime, if practical and possible. For example, if you eat dinner at 6 pm, but don't go to bed until 12 midnight, then a small 9:00 pm meal or a snack makes sense, but keep it light, preferably lean protein, and dont raid the refrigerator at 11:55!

sorry for the huge, italicized posts. i just think this explains my current perspective more clearly than i could...

[mononon]

when you guys gone of 6km + runs, what pace do you run at?

As for my routine, I run 1 mile every other day and weight lift for around 20 minutes following the run.
I eat lots of meats and vegetables, and try to avoid simple carbs. most of my carbs come from salads, vegetables, and i just started adding tomatoes and avocados. i like nuts a lot too, but find that i can't stop eating them!
i tried the atkins diet a while ago (was never fat, but just wanted to find a good every day lifestyle diet since i sometimes binged ate), and it was pretty good since i felt much slimmer, but after a while i just couldn't stand eating so much fat! now i am trying to stick with proteins like chicken and fish combined with vegetables.
after avoiding carbohydrates for such a long time (over a year now), i don't think i can go back to eating bread and potatoes unfortunately (could be a mental thing hahah).

[MoFiya]

^ I prefer to run at a hair slower than 5mins/km (on my 10km home track). But not sure on that as running is mediation for me and I run in whatever tempo I feel good. But that's around the tempo I feel confident with an can keep up for quite a long time...
A dash slower when longer... and, of course, faster when doing intervals

cjbreed, sorry but I do not take that quote really serious... the "test" is a really bad example of "how not to eat" and shows the bad ending of a long continua. Other than that, the read is more like a typical mens health article which I dont care about either. Of cousre, some good points (but we all knew these). Other than that, asking a bodybuilder on nutrition would not be my first choice. I'ld prefer a scientist or graduated nutritionist. Where d'you have that from, anyways?

[cjbreed]

i got it from this guy tom venuto

i believe he is considered a pretty credible trainer but honestly i can't say for sure.

i'm starting to think that some of the tips these guys (self proclaimed fitness expert bodybuilders with a book to sell) offer are a little beyond my needs and goals. i can't be bothered to worry about every single calorie and carb and insulin level index at this point and i'm by no means a competitive bodybuilder.

but like i said in the beginning i am no expert, and i do have a goal to achieve and need a diet and exercise plan that is realistic, sustainable, and effective. i believe a big piece of it is going to be cutting out the sugary, processed foods. i think its wise to eat foods in a form that most closely resembles how they exist in nature, and prepare them in healthy, low-cal ways, rather than counting calories and carbs. its basically just good sense. and i believe small meals throughout the day is a good idea too.

so the next question for me is the exercise regimen. i'd like to hear more about what you guys are doing and how it benefits you. i'm really intrigued by yoga, but my worry is that it won't burn calories and build lean muscle to the extent that HIIT will or the circuit training routine that i'm doing now...

[Acid, Bitter and Sad]

when you guys gone of 6km + runs, what pace do you run at?

My pace is around 11km/h

[stereophobic]

fuck you guys are mad to be able to sustain 11+km/h

I've been overweight most of my life and when I went on my health kick all my cardio was on the elliptical, I still stick to the elliptical even though I'm now at a healthy weight for my height (1.76cm 71kg) as the few times I tried the treadmill my dodgy knees start acting up after 5 minutes at 9km/h and 5 degree incline.

does anyone have any advice for someone like me who is aspiring to those 10km/h+ running speeds? I think I need the variation in my cardio regime really, I do use the C2 rower as well.

[jcotteri]

^ The cross trainer is a great place to start, but perhaps you can try going outside. I think I'm pretty luck as I run along a beautiful track in the evenings looking out over the water.. Pretty chilly though at the moment.

I run a less than ABS so I maintain speeds around 13km p/h during my 11km runs.

[stereophobic]

haha J, I presume you're in Canberra or something? yeah certain parts of the country are prime outdoor running material. I don't get Sydney runners love of running on the sidewalk though.

hope your exams went well btw!

[jcotteri]

I don't mind running on streets. I can't do all of it off track especially in the evenings as i'd probably twist my ankle. Oh i'm not in Canberra.

[Acid, Bitter and Sad]

Sometimes, depending on where you live, you don't get much of a choice whether to run in the country or in the city. For me, I'd pick a city run over a track&field running track, and avoid the treadmill like the plague.
Ran the Kyoto and Sydney Morning Herald half marathons last year, both city runs, and they were great!

[dji]

I eat reasonably well most of the time but do have a very sweet tooth, eat a lot of carbs though as I couldn't get by without rice and noodles (asian concept). also have a penchant for rich foods (particularly Malaysian cuisine) although I'm not all that keen on deep fried dishes, pastry, or anything particularly oily. I did have a massive lamb doner kebab in thick Turkish bread with some Baklava for lunch though...

try to hit the gym 4 times a week, 30 minutes of strength training and 30 minutes of cardio. can sustain 13km/h at a reasonable incline on the tread, been a bit slack with the gym for the past month though as I've been busy with work. on the days I don't go to the gym I normally go for a 6km run outside. main health goals are to maintain physical fitness and to build a bit of muscle, last time I was assessed early this year I was 173cm/53kg.

[Acid, Bitter and Sad]

D..you're really underweight! Eat more...and maybe those size 1 Julius leathers will fit you just nice instead of always being too roomy