Carol Christian Poell

[Heirloom]

it seems that some CCP garments can be nothing but butt ugly. And as Michael Kors would say "It's a complete mess. He didn't deliver, He completely missed the mark"

Heidi: "It looks like something I made, and I can't even sew"

Nina Garcia: "It's bizarre. It is."

Michael kors: It's a liiiiiittle bit hoochy."

[reborn]

As Rei Kawakubo has said, "bad taste is better than no taste."

[droogist]

lol Christian

looks like a tear, not a wrinkle. an intentional tear.

My bad. Still, it's not a dart, as it doesn't seem to have any effect on the fit. (Doesn't look all that intentional to me, either. )

[laika]

the red dress is the same as the white one
shown a few a pages back no?

i am totally with you, droogist...lol

[Chant]

/\ Yes it's the same one.

But I'd like to think that :
1°) if you can afford CCP, you're not that young (unless you're a rich kid), i.e. a shy virgin. You know that you have a body and that everybody has one too, so showing a side part of it isn't maybe so problematic.
2°) you know the guy and what he wants to do with your body, even agaisnt your approval.
In addition, a part of his work is about hiding/showing some parts of the body : invisiseam and chain seam reveal the naked flesh under certain circumstances, and BSR could show us some pics of what happens when the chain seams of the 09 jeans start to burst at the crotch...

Conclusion : if I were a woman, I'd like to wear, or, at least, try on this dress. I own the rain pattern white shirt, and it shows my nipples, and it's not such a big deal. I wouldn't say that I feel absolutely confortable with it, but if I would, I wouldn't wear CCP.
Not sure that this make sense, but I'd like to give it try.


EDIT : not sure the armholes shape is a problem actually :

[zamb]

/\ Yes it's the same one.

But I'd like to think that :
1°) if you can afford CCP, you're not that young (unless you're a rich kid), i.e. a shy virgin. You know that you have a body and that everybody has one too, so showing a side part of it isn't maybe so problematic.
2°) you know the guy and what he wants to do with your body, even agaisnt your approval.
In addition, a part of his work is about hiding/showing some parts of the body : invisiseam and chain seam reveal the naked flesh under certain circumstances, and BSR could show us some pics of what happens when the chain seams of the 09 jeans start to burst at the crotch...

Conclusion : if I were a woman, I'd like to wear, or, at least, try on this dress. I own the rain pattern white shirt, and it shows my nipples, and it's not such a big deal. I wouldn't say that I feel absolutely confortable with it, but if I would, I wouldn't wear CCP. Not sure that this make sense, but I'd like to give it try.

Chant,'
it doesn't make sense at all, the rain pattern shirt is a great shirt, and can be worn with a tank/ tee under it by those who choose to, and this is even great because layering a sheer piece over a contrasting colour can create some interesting visual effects.............not so with this dress, while I find this dress to be not as bad, some of the womenswear is a total fail and cannot/ should'nt be seen as anything but such.
this is not aimed at you, but this kind of philosophical defense of designer clothing when they fail is bordering on "the Emporors New Clothes" syndrome.
I have a tremendous amount of respect and admiration for this guys work and the high standards he adheres to, but when the work fails, I am not going to explain it away..............

[Chant]

No, Zamb, I can't agree with you.

1°) My purpose isn't to say if this or this piece is a fail or a win. Honestly, I don't care, since this isn't my perspective : I try to understand his work, without any evaluation of its value.

2°) And the particuliar point of the rain pattern shirt, I don't agree neither : the shirt has been made of sheer fabric, and its construction (very tight at the torso) is made to show, on purpose, a part of the body. But of course, you can layer, even though I'd say that in classical tailoring, which CCP is refering to imo, you're not suppose to wear anything under the shirt.

[Chant]

edited: looking back at the pictures i see that if he "contains" he also "releases" elsewhere.

Is it me, or neither the breast nor the belly parts are cut "properly" ?

Same here, with the breast :

The breast is a tad too tight, and the belly a tad too wide on the shirt. But the question is not to decide whether CCP is misogynistic or not, but to know how one could feel in these clothes and how is alters or changes the classic woman shape.

The main problem is that these are showroom pics and that they don't show the proper clothes on the proper shape.

[Chant]

Almost forgot...

Wonderwoman disapproves of CCP's way of cuting clothes for women.

[Johnny]

There are probably some other examples before you get to Wonderwoman that could indicate a greater degree of sympathy to the female form. Anyway, I agree, the fact that the cut is not classically anatomical or has some anti-fit is not in itself problematic not indeed anything to write home about.


Personally it's the colour and choice of fabric that I don't like. But really the cut of the dress is pretty unremarkable. I see that the white version has a different imperfection in roughly the same area, so presumably this is a design feature, to make it slightly more remarkable, as in, less unremarkable.

[Chinorlz]

That's great, because I've always wanted a bright red leather dress with one huge armhole that lets everyone see my entire boob from the side.

That doesn't qualify as a dart, by the way - it's a wrinkle.

It's a wrinkle commonly found at the edges of hides. Since the body of the dress is 1 (maybe 2) large piece, inevitably it gets close to the natural edge of the leather and then the pattern has to include that.

[black horizons]

^he is right.

I almost take that detail too as he is referring to the source, the hide, ala a Julius leather shirt with frayed bottom, I'm sure everyone knows the piece. He has done that plenty of times before, the scarring, the pig bag, all of that.

I think the dress is great in it's use of material, that it is so raw and imperfect, that it couldn't be anything but handmade by some lunatic. When evaluated as a single piece it is different than when looked at as a piece in a whole that is Carol's world of design. Especially considering his track record on women.

And as for the fit on the shirt, it almost seems like CCP is trying to de-feminize the torso, pulling in on the breasts, pushing out the stomach.

[jevna]

I dont think the imperfection seen in the pic is something Carol thought of or that he did it on purpose. The wrinkle probably just happened to be there.

And tricotin does not sound a mysoginist to me at all. I understand what he means.

[stretcheroo]

And here I was, just thinking that it looks kind of cool and wondering how it would look on certain women I know.

[croatoan]

well, the shirt is obviously cut like a mens shirt, which is complete flat front panel without two diamond darts below the breast that usually seen on most womens shirt.And the chest width is cut very narrow and straight hence pressing her breast making it looks awkward. So, perhaps CCP prefer flat chested women?

I have met women who prefer that sort of shirt cut, and I myself think that shirt looks cute on the model. There is quite a large market for women looking for more masculine cuts and choosing to avoid the typical feminine cuts/features of most western designers. In Asian countries it seems much more common (probably due to the more flat chested thing), but in USA I have talked with women who prefer XS sizes in Band of Outsiders, wings+horns, Robert Geller, etc to other, more traditional, options.

I don't see any of the pseudophilosophical statements you guys are forcing onto it but as simply an alternative style or preference.