Carol Christian Poell

[kunk75]

your posts are a breath of fresh air to everyone here, bravo!

[Patroklus]

i think the consensus is that there is no reasonable justification for any of this shit at all, but we will pay anyway

The designer needs to eat and he deserves to make money. That's enough for me.

Do you think that you need to have 3 billion to be considered rich??

Not quite. But the separation between upper class and upper middle class actually has more to do with cultural status than income. You aren't truly in the upper class unless you belong to a dynasty like the Kennedys, even if you're pulling in multiple six figures.

To elaborate, Rick Owens can be said to be firmly in the upper class due to Owenscorp, which will presumably continue to exist as an entity after Owens himself ceases to and continue to generate income for his estate, similar to Dior. Helmut Lang could not, because his label is no longer his own property. When Lang dies his estate will probably cease to generate revenue and his descendants will receive no benefit from his work.

[aphex27]

I don't think your grasp of numbers is quite there yet...

Making 6 figures/year is very, very, very, very, very, very far from having 3 billion.

[Patroklus]

It doesn't matter how much you make if you don't establish a dynasty that will continue to generate revenue after your death. It doesn't even matter if you generate infinity dollars in revenue.
If I sell blow I'm still middle class no matter how many millions I bring in every year. I'm not upper class until I establish a drug empire.

[lowrey]

I think off topic because Poell is avant garde and not luxury like watch or diamond. I'm waiting for my special order two months now? Anyone knows how long this take? I order self-edge so maybe longer than regular cloth?

epic train of thought here

[Pumpfish]

I fear this thread will run on empty until the 2010 Fe-male production cycle starts delivering.

[Heirloom]

i'd say avant garde is the true form of luxury, cause money can't buy it, you have to have the knowledge to do the right shopping, and this is a tool of distinction for upper class people ever since the middle class started affording what the upper class afforded, with the industrial revolution giving the middle class more financial means.

[Pumpfish]

I see luxury and avant garde as opposites.

Luxury is about refinement, narrowing towards some notion of "the best", whereas the avant garde is all about opening up to new possibilities.

[lowrey]

I think we've had this discussion before somewhere because I remember writing (or thinking) the same thing; there are various ways you can define luxury and it depends on the definition how it correlates with avant garde or whatever. Many labels typically (and superficially) described as luxury are more about the image and pricetag rather than originality, innovation or quality.

[aphex27]

^^^

Exactly my point about about about Loro Piana (and all equivalent brands)...
It's for people who don't have the time/interest in clothes. They want to get something of good quality and the price tag reassures them that what they're buying is high quality and exclusive. (which, in most cases is of course, not true)
This is the thinking of the majority of luxury buyers and the reason why brands like Gucci are so huge.
Sz-type (in terms of appreciation of clothes) luxury buyers are a minuscule minority in comparison...

[BeauIXI]

Bang on, L. I guess luxury is a combination of price and material, and nothing else. "Luxury Couture" is a tough one, because it's separate from luxury as attribute.

I'd say the comfort aspect ought to be considered as well.. One would imagine someone spending 2G on boots as the most comfortable person in the world, but as we know with CCP, that is surely not the case. Of course, the luxury is in the price, material and the art of the commodity.

Rick, yes, absolutely. In so far as comfort, you get your cake and eat it too, not only is his clothing luxurious (in keeping with what I've described above), but it is comfortable as hell.. But you end up wearing a gothic evening gown and thigh high medges (not that there's anything wrong with that). With some of Rick's clothing, people alienate you, to a certain degree, at least from what we've seen in the strangers' reactions thread.

In short, I feel that there are different ways to pay for belonging to the CCP club or the Rick club, both of which are certainly luxurious. Something safe and 'classic' is almost the most luxurious thing- I think of Lanvin, certainly the most expensive classic luxury clothing I've come across. You get your cake and eat it too and also have a side of iced cream. From Lanvin, you get luxury, comfort and zero alienation from the public. I haven't addressed the avant garde aspect, I'll have to think about that one for a while.

[Ochre]

This is excellent.

[aphex27]

lol...This is pretty indefensible even for the most harcore Poellians...

http://www.laboratorio35.com/Carol-Christian-Poell-men-s-canvas-zippered-sneakers-Ref.-AM-1765-STON-21.html

[upsilonkng]

maybe it's the new CCPXPuma thing... or CCPxSteve Madden? at any price it's overpriced because it sucks.

[aphex27]

^^^

Exactly my point about about about Loro Piana (and all equivalent brands)...
It's for people who don't have the time/interest in clothes. They want to get something of good quality and the price tag reassures them that what they're buying is high quality and exclusive. (which, in most cases is of course, not true)
This is the thinking of the majority of luxury buyers and the reason why brands like Gucci are so huge.
Sz-type (in terms of appreciation of clothes) luxury buyers are a minuscule minority in comparison...

An illustration:

Moni's comment: You may call me narrow-minded, but if I’m supposed to spend a fortune on a “designer” item, I expect that item to be the most special, glamourous, extravagant thing ever, so people would know that it’s a designer item.