The Election Upcoming

[Faust]

Geh, fuck Bill Clinton.

Did you see Dowd calling him out in the last sentence? Ouch.

[Real Real]

This suggests one way we might be able to resolve some of our concerns over Pakistan:

In an exchange captured by television cameras, Ms. Palin was greeted by Asif Ali Zardari, the new president of Pakistan, and a delegation of Pakistani officials.

“I am honored to meet you,” Ms. Palin said.

“You are even more gorgeous than you are on the (inaudible),” Mr. Zardari said.

“You are so nice,” Ms. Palin replied. “Thank you.”

“Now I know why the whole of America is crazy about you,” Mr. Zardari continued. At which point an aide told the two to shake hands.

“I’m supposed to pose again,” Ms. Palin said.

“If he’s insisting,” Mr. Zardari said, “I might hug.”

[kunk75]

you aren't. he's smart and articulate but a thinly veiled economic liberal who I cannot afford to have in office. McCain is no great shakes either though his deal with the devil will probably end upon election and he'll resume a more centrist/"maverick" position. the apocalypse never seemed like a good idea until now.

So I'm the only one who thinks Obama is a massive waste of fresh air? I think McCain is a little more tolerable as a person although I'd never support reps (nor democrats but that's another story).

[droogist]

you aren't. he's smart and articulate but a thinly veiled economic liberal who I cannot afford to have in office.

Is this you?

McCain is no great shakes either though his deal with the devil will probably end upon election and he'll resume a more centrist/"maverick" position.

So I guess we should just ignore what the candidates are saying, and vote with our imaginations.

[Faust]

LOL. Kunk I know where you are coming from as a business owner, but I don't agree with you - there are much more important things for society than you having to pay a little more taxes. Like universal healthcare, or the fact that your children are getting inferior education at a superior price compared to the rest of the developed world and a lot of undeveloped world, or your wife's right to have an abortion. And to speak of Democratic economic liberalism is a bit hypocritical considering what the Republicans have wrought in the past 8 years.

[kunk75]

if you vote for obama, you essentially are voting with your imagination. he has little record on any issue of pertinence. you're voting for "hope and change".

Is this you?
So I guess we should just ignore what the candidates are saying, and vote with our imaginations.

[kunk75]

probably not the forum for political repartie, but i have strong views on universal healthcare and the like. family members in countries where there is universal care are waiting 6 weeks for brain scans and such. i'd be happy to do it over strong coffee or stronger drinks.

and yes, this incarnation on the republicans does not help my argument, but i'm hoping for change i can believe in AND afford.

LOL. Kunk I know where you are coming from as a business owner, but I don't agree with you - there are much more important things for society than you having to pay a little more taxes. Like universal healthcare, or the fact that your children are getting inferior education at a superior price compared to the rest of the developed world and a lot of undeveloped world, or your wife's right to have an abortion. And to speak of Democratic economic liberalism is a bit hypocritical considering what the Republicans have wrought in the past 8 years.

[Faust]

probably not the forum for political repartie, but i have strong views on universal healthcare and the like. family members in countries where there is universal care are waiting 6 weeks for brain scans and such. i'd be happy to do it over strong coffee or stronger drinks.

and yes, this incarnation on the republicans does not help my argument, but i'm hoping for change i can believe in AND afford.

Forget affording - as a nation we are fucking bankrupt and it's the Republicans who did it. Universal healthcare is the only way to go - it does not preclude you from going to a private doctor - we aren't talking communism here. The fact that in the 21st Century in a civilized country people can be refused health care based on their income is uncivilized. It defeats the entire notion of progress, which has been the human project for the past 300 years as far I as I understand.

[droogist]

if you vote for obama, you essentially are voting with your imagination. he has little record on any issue of pertinence. you're voting for "hope and change".

Obviously we differ ideologically, but I don't buy this argument for a second. Obama's record may be relatively thin, as befits a "newer" politician, but his positions are clear and for the most part very consistent. In this regard McCain looks a far bigger gamble to me.

[kunk75]

for better or worse, in trying times (pardon the cliche), people go in the voting booth with what they know, i.e., mccain.

though i tilt more conservative (fiscally at least) please don't mistake me for a GOP'er. I was a fervent hillary supporter who volunteered for her campaign. Biden also presents a real problem for me, albeit not as obvious as the governor of the 49th state.

let's just talk about raf simons as to avoid the fate that befell me on styleforum.

[kunk75]

calling us civilized seems awfully optimistic.

Forget affording - as a nation we are fucking bankrupt and it's the Republicans who did it. Universal healthcare is the only way to go - it does not preclude you from going to a private doctor - we aren't talking communism here. The fact that in the 21st Century in a civilized country people can be refused health care based on their income is uncivilized. It defeats the entire notion of progress, which has been the human project for the past 300 years as far I as I understand.

[theetruscan]

if you vote for obama, you essentially are voting with your imagination. he has little record on any issue of pertinence. you're voting for "hope and change".

Bullshit. Don't make idiotic arguments and expect to be taken seriously. You are opposed to Obama so you repeat a simplistic talking point. Were you one of the people pointing out that Bush had zero national level experience after a short tenure as a governor, or that Clinton had previously been only a governor? Do you believe we should only be electing long-time congressional delegates? Because it's been a LONG TIME since we did anything like that.

Further, I know exactly what I'm voting for, and it's not some pathetic catch phrase.

When I vote for Obama, I am voting for a number of palpable things. First, he has a nuanced set of goals he would like to accomplish (as detailed on his website, and in his speeches). A lack of a long record in Senate does not equate to a lack of goals, plans and direction. I'm voting with my preferences. Second, he has a history of working for people who I think should be represented, though at the state level. Third, a huge portion of the effect a president has is from the people he surrounds himself with, and Obama seems to consistently pick very smart, capable advisors. Fourth, the ticket is Obama/Biden, and biden has unreal amounts of experience dealing with national politics (though I think his tough on crime bullshit is apalling).

Also, you should understand that when you vote for a candidate, you vote against another candidate. McCain's goal of perpetual war, deregulating everything (including the health care industry and further deregulating wall street), cutting corporate and capital gains taxes in the face of massive deficits, undermining equal pay, and generally being opposed to everything I care about makes a very convincing argument for what I'm voting against.

I'm probably wasting my time.

[kunk75]

I'm just not so drunk with liberalism that i can't see that ideas like cultural centers in foreign countries so they understand us and stop blowing us up is juvenile and speaks to his inexperience and naivety. At the end of the day he's just as full of shit and tied to special interests as McCain.

Also, his economic policies are shit for me, so I automatically won't vote for him. It doesn't much matter as NY is a fait accompli for obama.

i suppose you're a trial lawyer or union worker who just yesterday biden proclaimed as the saviors and the gateway to taking america back? the man has a long history of idiocy and hoof in mouth disease.

edit: even though i hate your fervent support of obama, i'd like to donate to your run. please pm me so i can get details.

[theetruscan]

I called your argument idiotic, it's different. Your argument was idiotic. You don't have to be an idiot to make idiotic arguments, and arguing that the only reason I would vote the way I do is that I'm voting on my imagination is patronizing and stupid at the same time.

I'm none of the things you guessed, but good try.

If you make smarter arguments I won't accuse you of making idiotic arguments though.

[kunk75]

^you was a collective you, not you as an individual. i just meant he is basically an unknown.

i was donating for personal reasons before, but now, your suffering seems as good as any ;)

kidding.